New KDE Direct multi-rotor brushless motors

Discussion in 'Cinestar 8' started by Ozkan Erden, Feb 14, 2014.

  1. Ozkan Erden

    Ozkan Erden Distributor

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    131
    Hello everybody,

    KDE released their multirotor line. Here is the product line:
    http://www.kdedirect.com/XFMultiRotorSeriesProducts.html

    I did some math and the numbers seem very very good. They seem way more efficient than Tiger U5 and U7 motors.

    Here are some notes on this: (I used the gr/W values to get these numbers)

    * KDE 4014XF is %40 more efficient than Tiger U7/420KV on 6S + 18x6.1 props at %50 throttle.
    * KDE 4014XF is %46 more efficient than Tiger U7/420KV on 6S + 18x6.1 props at %100 throttle.

    * KDE 4014XF is %14 more efficient than Tiger U5/400KV on 6S + 16x5.4 props at %50 throttle.
    * KDE 4014XF is %24 more efficient than Tiger U5/400KV on 6S + 16x5.4 props at %100 throttle.

    *KDE 3520XF is %43 more efficient than Tiger U7/420KV on 6S + 18x6.1 props at %50 throttle.
    *KDE 3520XF is %31 more efficient than Tiger U7/420KV on 6S + 18x6.1 props at %100 throttle.

    * KDE 3520XF is %14 more efficient than Tiger U5/400KV on 6S + 16x5.4 props at %50 throttle.
    * KDE 3520XF is %13 more efficient than Tiger U5/400KV on 6S + 16x5.4 props at %100 throttle.

    Very promising numbers. They are priced even lower than the U5/U7 motors and they are US based.
     
  2. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,979
    Likes Received:
    807
    Wow, very impressive. If they live up to these numbers, they could be very interesting.
    Man, this stuff is all moving so quickly!
     
  3. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    111
    OK, who'll be the first to buy and try!!??

     
  4. Jason Herring

    Jason Herring Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    12
    Looks great, and USA baby
     
  5. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    10,357
    Likes Received:
    1,161
    Which ESC's do you think they'd work best with? I'm thinking about getting one of each for testing purposes so it would be good to use the same ESC for all motors if possible.

    Andy.
     
  6. Ozkan Erden

    Ozkan Erden Distributor

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    131
    Hello Andy,

    I think you ask this for ground testing; for that matter, a 40A or 50A ESC version will be sufficient. They draw 30A max. at %100 throttle with 18" prop.
     
  7. Brad McGiveron

    Brad McGiveron Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    65
    I have been very happy with KDE on my single rotors so I think these are going to be good. I will order a set shortly, but I have less time these days so one of you will get to a test before me. We'll see
     
  8. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    5,211
    Likes Received:
    460
    From their website the 3 motors are between 30 and 45amp continuous. All of the Max amounts say TBD. So for a good margin you would likely want maybe 1.5 x???
     
  9. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    10,357
    Likes Received:
    1,161
    I was pondering more issues of the number of poles, and the ability to vary the phasing. I've seen a lot of references to SimonK firmware, with the 400Khz refresh rate. And yes, it's for grounding testing with different props to measure both thrust curves and also sensitivity testing -- the ability to respond to changing RPM commands.

    Andy.
     
  10. Jose Luis Ocejo

    Jose Luis Ocejo Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Messages:
    581
    Likes Received:
    44
    Great that its a USA company
     
  11. Zubeyir Mentese

    Zubeyir Mentese New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Merhaba Ozkan,

    I'd pretty much decided on the 490kv U7s for my next build. In my extensive search for a retailer that has 490kv U7s in stock, I ended up talking shop with several guys on the phone. A couple of them asked me if I'd considered the KDE Direct XF Multirotor motors. These US made motors have 3 sets of bearings, 24 poles, and a collet (instead of a clip) holding in the shaft (along with all the other fun mechanically robust features detailed in the video above). When I saw the spec sheet, I couldn't quite believe it. At 6s with 18 inch props at 50% throttle they generate a claimed 2100 2015g of thrust while drawing only 8 amps. That is a considerable gain in efficiency compared to the U7s. These motors are also about 60 grams lighter and need no more than a 50A ESC (a few more grams shaved off).
    Here's a link to the PDF spec sheet:
    http://www.kdedirect.com/files/KDE_Direct_XF_M-R_Brushless_Motor_Series_Technology_Review2.pdf
    Anyone have experience with these motors on a large build yet? I talked to a tech that said he flew a 26 pound rig with the 3520s and 16 inch props.
    The main advantage of these for me right now is that I can get them in my hands tomorrow. With a couple shoots coming up fast, that may be the deciding factor for me.
    I'll post my experience with these when/if I get them.




     
  12. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,979
    Likes Received:
    807
    Very curious. It sounds like they’re doing something similar to Avroto with their motors, where they order up custom Tiger motors (or something like that) and put some cooler parts on ‘em. I have the Avroto 3515 motors, and they’re very nice.
     
  13. Zubeyir Mentese

    Zubeyir Mentese New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    I was told that these motors were inspired by similar Tiger multi rotor motors, but are a completely original design using an entirely different type of copper (less nickel), different magnets, and do not share any parts with Tiger. I think they produce these in house, but "designed and manufactured in USA" can mean different things to different companies.
    I will be having another conversation about these motors tomorrow, so if there are any questions anybody thinks I should ask, let me know here and I'll try to get an answer (at least from a distributer's perspective).
     
  14. Ozkan Erden

    Ozkan Erden Distributor

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    131
    Merhaba Zubeyir,

    I agree, KDE's numbers look fantastic on paper. The efficiency increase means longer flight times, less stress on batteries. A local US company made some tests (AerialMediaPros I suppose) and they claim that it doesn't match the numbers of KDE.

    Patrick from KDE, wrote a message to multirotorforums, saying that:


    Here is the discussion to that:
    http://www.multirotorforums.com/sho...Multi-Rotor-Heli-motors-to-their-lineup/page3

    Personally, I would go with KDE without any hesitation. Heli guys know KDE Direct brand for a long time with their reliability and performance.
     
  15. Janne Hoglund

    Janne Hoglund Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    23
    Second that Steve, one nearly hesitates to bye anything ;-)
     
  16. Zubeyir Mentese

    Zubeyir Mentese New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ozkan- thanks for the links and very good additional info. Looks like KDE got their numbers by using their own ESCs which is no different than what T-motor does.
    Sadly, they are not manufactured in the USA. At least we don't have to worry about poor quality production when workers are rushing to go home on Fridays . . . they don't get weekends to distract them.o_O!

    Janne- You are so right! Now, I want to wait for the KDE ESCs and see what new motors they come up with. Maybe a good business model would be some kind of subscription based "Drone of the Month Club". Every month you can look forward to a gift basket with the latest and greatest in motor/prop/ESC/gimbal tech along with a variety of fine cheeses. The motto could be "Because you 'drone' want to fall behind!". I'm buying the web domain now. . .

    I'd still like to see the numbers from Aerial Media Pros (they do have their own motor brand, AMP, which appear to be rebranded Tigers). I'm still leaning heavily towards the KDE, especially after watching the 16 minute video where Patrick takes them apart. Coils covered in epoxy resin remind me of high quality sailboat electronics. That brings up plenty of good memories and mental associations for me.
     
  17. Patrick Koegler

    Patrick Koegler New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    14
    Hey Everyone,

    Thanks for the interest and I just wanted to introduce myself. I'm the Owner of KDE Direct, and we have been producing high-quality components (CNC Aluminum upgrades, Brushless Motors, Blades, etc.) for the RC Helicopter market for the last six years, owned by my wife (Leslie) and I. We are privately owned and based in the United States, out of Washington State, and do all our own in-house machining, packaging, shipping, etc. out of our facility. Brushless Motors are the only product we produce overseas, purely by the hand-labor involved in hand-winding the stators and other processes required, which the impossible to produce in the United States for a price that the market can accept. There are no hand-winding manufacturers in the United States in RC anymore, everything is overseas by the price pressures in the market. All of the designs are by my Engineering Team and I, so they are designed 100% in the United States using our CAD and electro-magnetic simulation software, so we produce the most optimal design we know how, and use the best materials we can source for construction. The manufacturer we chose for the motors is world-class, and one of the largest for other industries, including high-end RC Car race motors, so their technology is already above the vast majority of the market in what they can produce and what we can push for the designs. We have no connection to Tiger Motors in any regard, they are their own-brand and use their own manufacturing facilities, whatever they may be (I honestly don't know).

    None of the components are rebadged or produced for alternate brands, these are proprietary to KDE Direct and no other brand-components are used. Not only to protect our trade-secrets in the design aspects of the motors, but also, to produce much higher-quality brushless motors and ESCs on the market than the competition. I'm confident you will enjoy the motors and please feel free to contact me directly at anytime at patrick@kdedirect.com or sales@kdedirect.com, and we'll get you taken care of. We're excited to become part of the multi-rotor world, and lots more innovations coming, so we'll keep you posted.

    Thanks again,
    Patrick Koegler
    Owner, KDE Direct
     
    Steve Maller likes this.
  18. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,979
    Likes Received:
    807

    Welcome, Patrick! Thank you for connecting with us here on the forum. Looking forward to hearing about folks’ experiences with your exciting-looking motors.
     
  19. Patrick Koegler

    Patrick Koegler New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    14
    Just released the new video showcasing the KDE Direct XF Multi-Rotor Brushless Motor series and the upcoming Triple-Propeller Adapters and XF ESCs. The technology and performance is outstanding, and we're committed to bringing the best-quality products to the market.

     
    MIke Magee and Steve Maller like this.
  20. Ashley Fairfield

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2013
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    5
    I'm interested to know if anyone has tried the KDE 4012XF-400 with MK gear? Are they suitable? If so are there any settings changes required like those Holger put out for the MT 3515?
     

Share This Page