M15 pan hold issues on multi rotor

Discussion in 'MōVI M15' started by dan watkins, Sep 1, 2015.

  1. dan watkins

    dan watkins New Member

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    Hi all, we have been flying the Movi system on our Octocopters since they first came out, the M10 is all good but now having recently purchased 2 x M15 systems and running more tests than we can remember - we can't seem to get the Pan to hold it's axis when the Octo is under power. Its mainly when the camera is going sideways it looses axis almost straight away, whens its facing backwards or forwards it seems to be ok most of the time. The pan motor has no where near as much hold strength in it as the roll or tilt motors, which is the issue I suspect. But we can't seem to get it to have any more hold strength with any gain settings.

    We have run these systems for a long time now, know how to balance and tune everything perfectly but this one has stumped us. Has anyone come across the same issue, and found a fix for it? Any insight would be greatly appreciated!
     
  2. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Dan can you post the stiffness, smoothing, window settings you are using. Also weight of camera/lens/accy setup that you have. Photos might also help of the rig. All cables securely plugged in? And probably worth opening a ticket with Freefly. If roll and tilt aren't having issues and your config settings are good then it may be a motor issue.
     
  3. Derek Cooper

    Derek Cooper Active Member

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    Fly it in handheld mode and tighten up on Pan Smoothing (drop it down to 1) and Pan Window (to zero). Now test. If that does the trick, you can then loosen up on the two settings till you have the right config for your rig.

    We had exactly the same problems with our Movis - although weren't limited to the 15. 10 also did it.
     
  4. Guillaume MARION

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    Hi Dan,
    Friend of mine had this trouble on M10! Upgrade to last firmware and keep your usual settings.

    Note that you will need the jumper, if you don't have it then I can explain how to made it.
     
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  5. Chris Jordan

    Chris Jordan Member

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    Very common problem. Stoked to try Derek's solution!
     
  6. Jason Toth

    Jason Toth Active Member

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    Yeah we run into this at full speed w/ camera sideways with all our M15's. Will try with smoothing/window off to see if thats the issue, we have been stumped on this as well. Support said try and up the hold strength, but hasn't helped.
     
  7. Ozkan Erden

    Ozkan Erden Distributor

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    We fly in hand held mode and also our M15 doesn't hold pan on fast side movements.
     
  8. Adam Varadi

    Adam Varadi Member

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    Hy,

    I have this same issue on both M10 and M10. With RED or Alexa it cannot hold the pan when the Movi is sideway. The top speed on the ALTA and on the Cinestar is around 5-7 m/s when it's sideway, but when looking forward or backward it can fly 20 m/s without a problem.
    I think the Pan motor a way smaller than it should be. :-(

    Any ideas how to fix this? (Maybe from freefly?)
     
  9. Jason Toth

    Jason Toth Active Member

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    Still no go for us:

    - M15 perfectly balanced
    - Red Dragon / Alexa M, Ultra Prime 24/50mm, Tomhawk, battery, gimbal = all up weight of 13lbs (can’t get it any lighter)
    - Pan 220 / roll 80 / tilt 70 stiffness, done by hand = setting as high as possible before occultation
    - Pan smoothing 30 / pan expo 100 / pan window 5 (seam like these give us the smoothest gimbal quality on joystick)
    - Tried with smoothing/expo/pan off w/o any difference (pan breaks free after a few seconds between 10-18m/sec)
    - We have tried pan/tilt/roll hold strength from 8 to 18 w/o any difference.

    Unfortunate we are at the point of telling car clients we can't do side profile shots at speed. Its better to say we can't then tease them with an awesome shot that becomes unusable. Recently we gave it a go again but kept happening on 3x M15's, DP/Director was getting very upset at us - not a fun place to be :(
     
  10. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Jason have you contact Freefly support?
     
  11. Jason Toth

    Jason Toth Active Member

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    Yeah, going to do some specific testing on a shoot Tuesday & report back to them.
     
  12. Wayne Mann

    Wayne Mann Member

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    Hi guys,

    I think I can help out with this issue. Jason you said that you have used pan hold strength numbers from 8 to 18, well that is a terribly low number (18) for pan hold strength for that heavy of a load. The hold strength number determines how much holding power any of the three axis have. That number will go up over 100. The higher that number is on the pan axis the faster you can fly sideways without the pan axis turning loose. I am running pan hold strength at 20 with a GH4 with a stiffness setting of 190 with the two filter settings at 1 and I can fly full speed sideways without the pan axis turning loose on an Octo. I should mention that I also have additional weight on the gimbal as a GH4 with a Rokinon lens is way too light for an M5 in my opinion for great aerial results. I would think with the weight that you are at you should be able to run that number at 50 or higher and adjust pan stiffness lower if necessary. The point being 18 is way too low.

    One thing that is sorely missing here is any real tuning help in the way of instructional video that walk you through how to tune these gimbals for aerial use. Using one of these gimbals for hand held work is childs play compared to tuning one for aerial work.

    I hope this helps

    Wayne Mann
    www.HeliCamHDmedia.com
     
  13. Jason Toth

    Jason Toth Active Member

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    Thx! Will test on Tuesday, support said up the hold strength so we went to 18. Will go all the way to 100 in 10 increments see if it works. Later, J
     
  14. Guillaume MARION

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    Hi Jason Toth,
    did you get any better result rising up the hold strength?

    Also important to know that is you are using the V1 landing gear, you should clean it up from any source of wind pressure.
     
  15. Jason Toth

    Jason Toth Active Member

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    Been too busy and haven't tested yet. Hope in the coming days. J
     
  16. Jaron Denson

    Jaron Denson New Member

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    Did you achieve usable results?
     
  17. Jason Toth

    Jason Toth Active Member

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    Nope :(

    We have tried for a few weeks now and same issue w/ 5x M15's, pretty much repeatable.

    Unfortunately w/ the M15, we realistically can only carry max 13lbs including the gimbal weight while flying (so only 8-9lbs payload). Otherwise it will break loose when we look sideways to the drones movement at high speeds "30-50km/hr" or looking down.

    Ultimately the 15lbs payload Freefly specifies is for handheld, once you get airborne and add wind, inertia & angle of the drone the M15 can't handle any more weight.

    We have had a lot off issues w/ productions this year wanting to lift heavier lenses & we try and it fails. So we are telling all our clients that the max lenses we can fly w/o gimbal issues 2lbs = ultra prime or super speeds :(

    - Red / Alexa = 5lbs
    - Movi M15 = 5lbs
    - Paralinx / cables = .75lbs
    - battery = 1lbs
    - lens = 2lbs

    Total 13.75lbs

    The M15 is awesome but we need a PAN motor upgrade ASAP!!!
     
  18. James Adkins

    James Adkins Member

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    We ran into this issue 2 years ago flying our M10 fast on our big SR helis. The pan motor is undersized considering how the gimbal is designed. Optimized settings will help but will only get you part of the way. This issue is worse on our M15 than on the M10 or M5. We solved the problem but at the expense of some additional weight for modifications. Still weighs way less than the Ronin though!
     
  19. Jason Toth

    Jason Toth Active Member

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    Yeah we find our M10's & M15's have the same performance - M15 being able to hold larger cameras due to the longer tubes.
     
  20. James Adkins

    James Adkins Member

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    When you fly above 50mph some differences start to show up.
     

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