Jitter on tilt when conrtrolling with Spektrum

Discussion in 'Radian' started by Thijm, Oct 9, 2012.

  1. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    111
    TFCM, a couple of question for you. I see you've gotten your hands on a sweet pair of Herk ESCs. You're running 6s on the KW10 (600kv) with 14x5" props. Why not 15x5" props? do you feel 15" would be better suited for 5s?
     
  2. Thijm

    Thijm Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    16
    Using 14x5 for testing. When in the future i ad more weight i might switch to 15x5
    We always fly in windy condition and i like to have my props spin as fast as possible. Fc can make faster adjustment.
    Above 10kg you need 6s. I don't think 5s/600kv is a good idea. Maybe on 3515/650kv
     
  3. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    111
    Got it. It's very obvious that you've spent a great deal researching and testing and it's greatly appreciated that you're sharing your experience. Your comments all make a lot of sense to me. I was always curious to see real world on board footage from 9-12KG platforms, flying big cameras, spinning big props with low KV motors and flying under not so calm conditions..I see a lot of footage of platforms lifting big weight but no on board footage at these weights (ideally with a lens focal length of 20-35mm). The rule has always been that multirotors are more stable when their motors are spinning fast enough to react and adjust but then maybe it doesn't matter because the larger slower spinning props are pushing a greater volume of air?

    From reading your observations I think maybe the 400KV mt3515 are not good for a heavy craft (10-12KG) on 5s, too low kv and way to slow to react to windy flying. In your opinion a platform weighing 10-12KG on 6s and 15x5" props would do well with a KV range of 550-650?
     
  4. Thijm

    Thijm Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    16
    Well... I'm getting help from some talented people. You can't know everything. The project is immense! Big problem if you are already working in the business!
    Props do also need to slow down. Bigger props will be more efficient, but you need to gain down your Fc (windy environment)

    It all depends on your ground/field level (Our Flying range 1-100 meter sea level) and with a auw for Kw10 / 3515 600kv. 10-12kg 14x5. 11-13kg 15x5 (At 3000mtr you need 17x5)
     
  5. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    111
    Got it, Thanks!
    What's the AUW weight of your fully loaded filming bird & what flight times are you averaging using the 14x5" props, KW10 & 6s? How are the Herk IIIs performing? Can you warm your hands on them after 5 mins?
     
  6. Thijm

    Thijm Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    16
    Just did the first test flight. Very happy with the stability. the added weight makes it easier to hover. Very accurate on control input.
    Can't tell the auw yet. Next week more time to test.
     

    Attached Files:

    Howard Dapp likes this.
  7. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    111
    Glad to hear. Looking great!
     
    TFCM likes this.
  8. Wolfgang Armin

    Wolfgang Armin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    25
    Just a very minor recommendation from somebody who knows far less than you do, but still:
    I´d exchange the white foil on the boom for neon yellow. The difference is huge. I just yesterday changed a boom for testing something else. I didn´t find my yellow foil and went with white. At least for me the difference was extreme, I had a hard time seeing the white boom on a longer distance and not perfectly blue sky.
     
    TFCM likes this.
  9. Thijm

    Thijm Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    16
    Its all about experience and user feedback/conversation. these ideas start us thinking, what would work for me!. Thnx for sharing.
    Some user like to have a brighter front. I find it easier to focus on the back of the copter. Same as on a normal copter > Tail.
    I don't know if orange is the best color. Yellow neon is a good test.
     
  10. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    10,369
    Likes Received:
    1,162
    Wolfgang's finding appears to be supported by science. Check out this web page, scroll to the second diagram and hover your mouse over the "Luminosity" in the top right corner of the diagram. Yellow/Green are the colors humans perceive as the brightest.

    Will the FAA make us change to red on boom #7 and green on boom #3, I wonder?

    Andy.
     
    TFCM likes this.
  11. Wolfgang Armin

    Wolfgang Armin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    25
    Wow, so I can trust my eyes - that´s weird hahahaha. I have neon pink on #7 - would that be acceptable?
    And yes the neon green on #3 is way better to see than the neon pink.
     
    TFCM likes this.
  12. Thijm

    Thijm Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    16
    Nice find! simple test.
     
  13. Thijm

    Thijm Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    16
    Used some yellow cam tape on the back arms today in a cloudy condition and it actually made a big difference.
    So i'm going to change it :)
     
  14. Thijm

    Thijm Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    16
    Did a Scarlet test today. With a auw at 10.350kg (7.600 copter/ 2.750 Scarlet/lens/ssd) and 13x6.5 Xoar (no 14x5 xoar received yet!).
    Hoover point was just above 50%. So with the Epic-m i definitely need 14"
     
    Howard Dapp likes this.
  15. Wolfgang Armin

    Wolfgang Armin Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    25
    Great! I´m happy it worked for you!
     
  16. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    111
    Very interesting! Sounds like the 14x5 will be exactly what your setup needs. Are you happy with the kw10s? How's the quality and do you have any minor gripes? Most importantly are you confident in them? I'd say yes now that you've mounted the scarlet :)
     
  17. Thijm

    Thijm Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    16
    Yes very happy with the KW10. No need to balance. Only props on both axes. Minor difference in motor balance is resolvable with turning the prop on the shaft. I'm not using any dampers/rubber o-rings. Just hard mounted. So the prop/motor have to be 100% balanced.

    Image was ok. still gain on tilt was to high >75% or the cam was not 100% in balance. Image was perfect without radian active. Normally we fly epic only > different balance.

    I know its crazy. but this was the second flight with the new setup. Thats why a scarlet!. But it flew great. Very confident. Brought a big smile also with my operator. especially with the mods on the remote head and the radian Control/stabilization > high gain on pan is brilliant > rock solid. Thnx FF.

    Edit; it is also possible that some vibrations are related to fc settings > used the them from previous setup
     
  18. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    111
    Thanks! All great info which I'll surely follow when I start my upgrade. Keep us updated with your testing!
     
  19. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    111
    Hey TFCM,

    When your rig (6s + 14x5) is not loaded with the weight of camera gear and gimbal how does it fly? I'm imagining it's ready to launch to the moon with barely any throttle input. What number do you have your Min Gas set to?
     
  20. Thijm

    Thijm Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    16
    Still on Xoar 13x6.5 (last 4 days with a epic-m hover around 50-60%). Indeed without payload very powerful. But not as scary as the previous config > tiger 2820/8/13x5/6s
    14x5 is unbalanced so testing this later this week
     

Share This Page