FAA and regulations

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Mark, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. Mark

    Mark New Member

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    Since technically it's not legal to fly a drone/copter commercially how is everyone getting around it?
    I don't want to break any laws but I also need to make a living and justify (bought ours before this new law) buying a $10K copter!

    m
     
  2. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

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    In many states within the US driving a registered vehicle on public roads with window tint darker than 75% is considered illegal.

    I drive a truck that has 20% tint on all windows and 35% tint on the entire windshield. My window tint isn't causing harm or distress to anyone and I can see the roads perfectly fine!
     
  3. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Mark: As this is a public forum, indexed by Google and the Internet never forgets, you may find that not too many folk will want to answer your question via the forum.

    Howard's masterful zen-like posting does contain the answer however....

    Andy.
     
  4. Jon Fredericks

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    Mark - I would encourage you to study the current regulations, policies, and legislation to draw your own conclusions:

    FAA 2006-25714
    AC 91-57 (Advisory Circular)
    FAA Reauthorization Act of 2012
    FAR's (Federal Aviation Regulations)

    ...and any other applicable docs.
     
  5. Mark

    Mark New Member

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    I kinda figured that but just wanted to hear from others and their views. I have read most of those documents, and yes, we are going to draw our own conclusions for sure. Thanks Andy and Jon!

    m
     
  6. Philip Ellerbroek

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  7. Tait Sougstad

    Tait Sougstad New Member

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    Note: http://www.suasnews.com/2012/03/133...aircraft-in-the-u-s-national-airspace-system/

    I've been searching the internet for anything to help with this question, since I am concerned about keeping the law, regardless of my feelings their the validity or worth. The opinion of FAA 2006-25714 (noted by Jon, above) is that anything not specifically permitted in the National Airspace System is thereby rejected. An argument in the article above is that the FAA's power is limited to "regulations and orders," not policy statements. Aircraft operating in Class E (the lowest "controlled") airspace and above would seem to require all of the credentialing as a manned aircraft, and are subject to the FAAs regulations. Class G (ground level to 700') is known as "uncontrolled" airspace. Perhaps my aviatory green horns are showing in this little exposition, but it seems to me that folks should be able to operate in this zone. Or maybe "uncontrolled" is used in a more technical sense than how I'm reading it. But, it seems to concord with the policy statement in AC 91-57, which "encourages voluntary compliance" and promotes "a good neighbor environment."

    There have been a few companies shut-down. Makes me wonder on what basis, since the legality of enforcement seems questionable.


    This is all purely hypothetical and a mere pondering, of course.
     
  8. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Tait

    "Uncontrolled" airspace is simply airspace that is not under any air traffic control services. Here's the definition from the FAA

    Class G Airspace
    Uncontrolled airspace or Class G airspace is the portion of
    the airspace that has not been designated as Class A, B, C,
    D, or E. It is therefore designated uncontrolled airspace.
    Class G airspace extends from the surface to the base of the
    overlying Class E airspace. Although ATC has no authority
    or responsibility to control air traffic, pilots should remember
    there are visual flight rules (VFR) minimums which apply
    to Class G airspace

    When they discuss the A-E they say that is 'controlled' airspace and reference air traffic control.

    AC91-57 is for RC modelers and if you don't plan to do any commercial work our flying clearly falls under that classification and advisory circular. It's the commercial side that is concerning to those trying to make a living with our copters.

    Now if only the FAA would follow the intent of Congress in regards to setting regulations.
     
  9. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Dean Roczen likes this.
  10. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

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    DJI - Drones Could Have Prevented Hollywood Deaths

    "According to Colin Guinn, the North American CEO of DJI Innovations, a company that manufacturers unmanned aerial vehicles, accidents such as Sunday's are all too common in the industry, and they could be avoided if the government would move faster to unleash Hollywood's drone army in waiting."

    LINK
     
  11. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

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    Whew...that's tough, but I have to agree. Anybody who believes that traditional choppers have advantages over our RC copters needs to look at it more closely.
     
  12. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Hot off the press is a new Policy document regarding UAV's. Get it HERE. See discussion at sUAS News
     
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  13. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Good find, Gary. I'm just reading it. Nothing that really surprised me yet (only at page 23).
    What's not clear is what happened to the FAA procedures for (Advanced) Notices of Proposed Rule Making, public comment and then Rules? This document seems to be a policy document that skips over that process.

    Here are some highlights. Apologies in advance for any errors. I'm reading the document for the first time.

    What's not at all clear is the degree to which all of the document applies to the likes of Cinestars.

    Andy

    NOTES

    Para./Comment
    9.a Need to get special Airworthiness Certificate for Civill UAS. Looks like it's per individual UAS. (see 10.a.(1)).

    10.c.(2) There needs to be a maintenance training program.

    12.e. Note requirements for "Lost Link" (Loss of Tx signal).

    12.g. Need FCC authorization for telemetry and control frequencies.

    13.b (1) : Need two way ATC radio link for operation in Class G airspace (preferably via on-board voice relay).

    13.f : No flight over populated areas except where level of airworthiness allows (which probably means no urban flying for experimental aircraft).

    13.h : No flight over busy roads and open air assembly of people except where level of airworthiness allows (see 13.f).

    13.q.(6) : Class G airspace operations must comply with 91.126 (need to look that up).

    15 Personnel qualifications
    a. UAS pilots must maintain same level of control as for manned aircraft.
    b. Pilots must be qualified on aircraft being flown.
    c. (2) (b) Pilot in command must have an FAA private pilot certificate for flight in Class G airspace (400 ft AGL)
    d. (2) (c) Pilot in command does not need FAA private pilot certification if pilot has completed FAA ground instruction and private pilot written examination, flight ops are for daylight, Visual line of sight in Class G airspace, aircraft no more than 1/2 nautical mile and less than 400 AGL, operating from private airfield.

    15.c.(3) : Pilot in command must demonstrate currency in UAS (three takeoffs and landings within previous 90 days).

    15.c.(4) : Pilot must have valid second class medical.

    15.c.(6) : Pilots, in addition to pilot certificate, must also be trained in normal, abnormal, and emergency procedures on specific UAS, manufacturer specific training, demonstrated proficiency, and "testing in the USA being operated" (don't understand that last part, especially use of the word "in").

    15.f. UAS Maintenance need qualifications.

    16. Describes requirements for information to be provide to get an AMOC (Alternate Means of Compliance).

    Appendix D: If I understand this correctly, this is what we have to fill in to get an AMOC to fly.

    Andy.
     
  14. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

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    Wow, we thought the lines at our local DMVs were bad. Imagine if each of our birds have to be inspected individually. That seems all but impossible.
     
  15. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Andy this is just a re-hash of the current process for getting a COA. Not having memorized the last iteration it looks nearly the same.

    As you notice it is a 'Policy' document. And that could lead you to assume it is not an FAR 'regulation' and I think you might be correct. But don't tweak the tigers tail as it were. It also doesn't discuss anything about weights and the diagram in Appendix F, first block, asks if you are Civil or Public. If Civil you need a "Special Airworthiness Certificate in the Experimental Category".

    And Steve, tt is going to be interesting to say the least. I'm waiting to have someone trot down to the local FSDO office with their quad and ask an inspector it issue a AWC in Experimental. They are great guys but would be overwhelmed if everything from a Blade to an X16 multirotor needs to be issued an AWC for commercial work.
     
  16. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Gary: Given that it is just a re-hash, I'm struggling to see the point of the apparent re-issuance of a previous document?
    As you say: Don't poke a badger with a spoon....

    Are we any further forwards towards "Regulations" vs. re-statement of policy?

    If this document purports to be a step forward, then, as you say, no weight classes? One size of regulation fits all from Blade to MQ1-B? Errr....

    Andy.
     
  17. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    It isn't a step forward. More of a shuffle sideways. Washington two step if you know what i mean. The Congressional mandate for true regulations by Sept 2015 seems to be stalled since the FAA made their comments about concern for privacy. None of the 6 test sites have been identified yet and that was one of the first steps in the process.
     
  18. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Yeah. I need those test sites. My guest bedroom's ok for the Blade, but the Cinestar's an utter bitch to keep centered in the room. :)

    Andy.
     

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