Y axis for Movi

Discussion in 'MōVI M10' started by Peter Barta, May 25, 2014.

  1. Peter Barta

    Peter Barta Member

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    Hi guys,

    I've been searching for some way of eliminating the Y axis when walking with the Movi, unlike Steadicam with its isoelastic arm we tend to use our human strength but unless your fit and strong it can be a struggle holding it take after take.

    There's some new ways to eliminating the Y axis and one is the easyrig with a device from Flowcine called the 'serene' which you attach to your easyrig taking care of the side to side swing and the vertical axis from walking with a spring loaded mini arm. More info here http://www.flowcine.com/serene/#. I've ordered one and will be using it on a feature so will give you some feedback soon.

    The other device is very different but has just been launched from WalterKlassenFX called the 'Slingshot' which attaches to a Steadicam vest made by Walter and as you can see in the attached picture is supported by a dual arms which attach to each end of the Movi handles. The slingshot allows for more high to low boom movement but distributes the weight evenly to your body rather than your arms. I will be getting one after cine gear to try out so will keep you posted.

    Has anyone else seen any other ways of supporting the Movi besides the Gore-Link to a Steadicam Arm? I have been playing around with different bungee's with some success utilising an extended easyrig arm.

    All the best,

    Pete Barta
    www.peterbarta.com.au
    twitter @monkey_pics


    image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
     
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  2. Eric De Fino

    Eric De Fino Member

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    Peter, thanks for posting this. I hadn't seen the Serene.

    I've been testing out several options which I'm hoping to share soon. They look nothing like these. Three days of filming with a fully built MoVI & Epic two weeks ago was enough to get me designing a custom rig.

    Walter's seems the most promising of the current options, although it looks fairly large. Not sure how it would perform in an interior situation, low ceilings, walking thru doors, etc. I'm waiting until they release test shots to form a final opinion.

    I had an Easyrig on my last shoot and ended up only using it to frame and block the shots. When it was time to roll, I scrapped it. Felt too cumbersome and like I was fighting another variable.

    Cheers,
     
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  3. Lael Camak

    Lael Camak Member

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    The Serene looks interesting. I like how they are planning vehicle mounts for it. I'm not crazy about attaching it to an Easyrig though. I have used the Easyrig a lot but it starts to become a very big, cumbersome device. When it starts getting that big, I begin to wonder why I am using this device to get handheld shots. At that point Steadicam is a clear solution.
    Same thing with the Klassen Slingshot. Looks like it will definitely free the weight from you, but your body movement is going to become much more restricted.
    All the best,
    Lael
     
  4. Ben Ruffell

    Ben Ruffell Active Member

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    Agreed. I am looking for a vehicle mount solution.

    One that can swap between a body mount, and a vehicle mount would be the best of both worlds.
     
  5. Joe Hell

    Joe Hell Member

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    a video of the slingshot at cinegear


    and a cheaper system...
     
  6. Constantine Tyrintzis

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    Hey there. Some info about the Serene arm. First of all we are pulling some more tricks to make the Serene adaptable ina bigger range camera weights from total camera and gimbal 6-20 kg. We are now testing a new mechanism that makes the arm more responsive and pull a few new tricks. The Serene is a very small 1,2 kg arm that doesnt add up much on your easyrig arm in size, and works together with the easyrig extension cord, so you can have a stable Y axis as well as X axis as the Serene pivots around it centre pivot connection to minimize the side to side body movements created from walking sequences with the easyrig. We are making a video to introduce and show this very clearly.
    We are also already in production of all the common parts that will remain the same, so we dont loose time in our production.
    Also we are working very close with Johan from easyrig, to see how we can make something that can be easily swapped in between hard mount and easyrig. First option would be to just disconnect the easyrig arm from the vest, and adding a hardmount part we provide you will be able to connect the total easyrig and serene to a hard mount, and at the same time be able to use the extension of the cord if needed. But we are working in something better.
    thanks for your interest. LY9A5035_medium.jpg LY9A4757.jpg
     
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  7. Alan Amor

    Alan Amor New Member

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    Here's the latest video demonstrating the SlingShot. The shots are not a smooth as I would like to see from a quality gimbal however. Perhaps practice will make perfect?

     
  8. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Alan hope that whoever is in the rig is very trusting of the safety man as he gets immersed in the shoot with the Cinemizers before he walks off of the pier :). Thought is was all very good. You should pitch a shoot to the Peabody hotel since you are now duck experts...
     
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  9. Constantine Tyrintzis

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    [​IMG]

    Hello again. Constantine here from Flowcine, designer of the Serene arm for easyrig.
    Iam testing the new version Serene mechanics and it will be 1 week needed more for the tests to finish.
    The lens height range , and depending on the easyrig arm you have, can be over eye level, to very low mode.

    This is a much greater range than a steadicam can have, and at a very reasonable size rig.

    and dont forget its not just the range one rig can go, its the range that can go on the fly in one useful take, fluently and smoothly, with full support and vertical stabilization.

    I will release more info next week and results as well as footage, and we will be at IBC2014 demoing the Serene and easyrig with the Movi, so you are all welcome to come by and test. The Serene arm is fully adjustable on the fly for different loads in seconds.

    If you guys need more tech info , dont hesitate to mail me at constantine@flowcine.com. Iam making this as advanced as possible , to make a good Y axis stabiliser for your Movi and easyrig . here is a picture of the updated Serene arm Iam currently testing and tuning.

    gimbal and camera loads for the Serene 6-12 and 12 -12kg with 2 different springs that will be shipping with it, and can be changed in minutes.
     
  10. Constantine Tyrintzis

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    Hello again. Testing hard, here is the new updated design, of the Serene arm for vertical stabilization of the Movi and Easyrig.
    Very pleased with the results. Rapping up and starting the rest of the parts production end of this week.
    Some videos will be posted.In the mean time enjoy the prototype, much beefier, stronger, and very responsive.
    Range gimbal and Camera 5kgr-20kgr so its future proof lol.Prices and availability to be announced soon. Please contact us for more info at info@flowcine.com , and for technical questions at constantine@flowcine.com .. kind regards [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  11. Charles Lim

    Charles Lim Member

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    how does this perform vs a steadicam +movi combo?
     
  12. Constantine Tyrintzis

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    Here is some VERTICAL stabilization MIRROR test, with a 16lb simulation cage and mechanical G1, using the SERENE ARM with Easyrig. Not only mirror test but also zooming with 100mm as well and then 40mm.
    This is the latest prototype of the Serene that starts production next week.
    the test is done simulating your Movi and Epic weight with easyrig cinema 3.
    Feel free for any technical questions to contact me at constantine@flowcine.com

    for any interested parties contact info@flowcine.com

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=816865148345698&set=vb.632815766750638&type=2&theater
     
  13. Constantine Tyrintzis

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  14. Constantine Tyrintzis

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    First video with the latest prototype Serene version for vertical stabilization for the Movi.

    Was shoot with the purelly mechanical gimbal Gravity One, Easyrig 3 600N, SERENE spring arm for the easyrig, and camera load + gimbal 15 kgr. There is no electronic gyrostabilization, or gyros, or any post stabilisation , and this is purelly demonstating the abiliity of the Serene arm to stabilise walking vertical errors from slow walking to running shots, eliminating them and add the 4th axis needed for all gimbals and Movi to create a solid rock stabilised shot, using the easyrig.More videos to come very sortly , this one was a fast first shot with a 35 mm lens.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10203428405265057&set=o.422670997876798&type=2&theater

    Preorders are runing with a 10% discount until august the 12th , production of 150 units already started.
     
  15. Eric Ulbrich

    Eric Ulbrich Member

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    Hey guys,
    Have not tried the serene yet (demoing next week.) but I did try the slingshot rig. I have to say I wasnt impressed and found that it actually impeded my ability to move and amplified my y axis bouncing. The issue I found was the bungee's that the slingshot use can also lead to its biggest downfall. Yes it does help the weight factor, but amplifies the operators stepping, also if you want to raise or lower the camera be ready to either fight the bungees or take the full weight of the rig. Ive been impressed with the serene arm images and video thats coming out. Plus at the price point (8K for the Klassen) and around 2k for the serene it kind of makes it a hard to beat buy.
     
  16. Constantine Tyrintzis

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  17. Peter Barta

    Peter Barta Member

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    Hi Movi Community,

    I just wanted to give my two cents worth on the serene I've bought one and in no way have been paid to say anything other than what my experience is after seeing the prototype at NAB2014 with the idea I'd use it for a film 'San Andreas' and various commercials recently. I've had the Serene for the past two months as a beta tester and although it has now been updated and ever evolving by Konstantinos which I think is a big achievement it's to me the only tool that I'm currently using to support the weight of the Movi M10 by combining the easyrig support system.

    I'm a believer that if you can use the Movi with brute strength that is how the tech has been designed, to Freefly! The problem is the way we film nowadays unlike the old film days we now roll on a shot forever, hence needing a support system and when the serene came out I was hooked. I already own two easyrigs plus an extended arm so I'm familiar with how my stamina is enhanced when doing static shots even with the Movi but I can't move otherwise it just doesn't work so I try to exercise and use my strength when possible but it's not the solution as we all know who operate one. I do use my PRO Steadicam arm on tracking shots with the Movi hard mounted but it's not ideal with a vest based on my experience. Most of my work is in remote mode either myself operating or the A/B camera Op or gripping the shot so trying to operate in majestic mode is not something I'm interested in or feel does the gear justice.

    So now the Serene bridges the gap by allowing movement with its isoelastic arm with an easyrig similar to a Steadicam arm keeping everything simple and compact unlike some other designs which have their place but I feel are more restrictive for my type of work which is film & commercials. Please check out the above video post by Konstantinos and see for yourself first hand. I think it shows it's simple and isoelastic design which truly does work.

    On a side note I've noticed that just like Steadicam the Movi needs practice and experience which some treat the Movi like some answer to a a quick career in moving images so please give it respect firstly and be great at it, just like steadicam it's an art, the thing that gives the Movi a bad name is bad balance, bad operating and bad composition!
    And lastly I laugh at the idea that the Movi is a Steadicam killer which has been spoken about before, steadicam is still No.1 the Movi has not killed it in any way at the higher end on film & commercials, I am a steadicam operator who's embraced the technology for what it is, another awesome tool which we are lucky to have so respect it people!

    Fly safe

    Peter Barta
    Camera - Steadicam - Mōvi
    www.peterbarta.com.au
     
  18. Charles Lim

    Charles Lim Member

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    hey peter, thx for the write up , any videos of the serene arm being tested or walking footage?
     
  19. Chris mierzwinski

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    Has anyone here personally try the MOVI on the flowcine off the easyrig or a Steadycam arm at IBC.
    If anyone is there please go and ask questions and check it out.
    I wonder if the flowcine is a good option to mount on a steady arm with the MOVI upright. Walk and talk shots would be great and it would be such a tall cumbersome vertical profile that the slingshot is.
    But only if it actually works really really well.
     
  20. Charles Lim

    Charles Lim Member

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    i found this , it shows SAM operating the movi15 with cineflow, but no footage from using it.
     

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