The Movi and Sound Recording

Discussion in 'Movi Technical' started by Rorick Edge, Jun 10, 2018.

  1. Rorick Edge

    Rorick Edge Active Member

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    Hi Christian,

    Thanks for your question, which helped me think about an important issue.

    On your 6S, it is not possible to use a Bluetooth connection for two functions. Despite the introduction of Bluetooth 5.0, I also can’t do it with an iPhone 8. I think that a lot of the talk about more Bluetooth bandwidth is theoretical at the moment.

    A couple of days ago, Rick wrote a post about a new Sennheiser product that will transfer sound via Bluetooth to a phone. You effectively raise a good question, which is whether this product will work with a phone that is communicating at the same time with a Movi via Bluetooth. I think that it is pretty clear that it won’t, because right now it is not possible for a phone to communicate with two devices via Bluetooth at once. In saying that, I have not tried an iPhone X.

    I think that it will not be possible for a phone to communicate via Bluetooth with two Bluetooth sources at once until the new Bluetooth standard is more fully implemented in the phones that claim to have it. Also, if I understand correctly, this would work only if the phone, the Movi and the Sennheiser mike were all on the new standard.

    If you have two iOS devices, you could use Bluetooth to control the Movi with one and record with the other. I have done this. Specifically, I have had an iPhone on the Movi, controlled by the Movi app, and another iOS device in my pocket (could be a phone, iPad or iPod) recording sound from a DPA d:vice.

    There is a huge amount of misinformation about Bluetooth 5.0 on the internet, and I would be delighted to hear if anyone thinks that what I am saying is wrong.

    If I understand your other question, it is whether the Movi USB port will power your Focusrite. It won’t. Unlike some gimbals, the Movi batteries power the Movi but not external accessories. So you will need separate power for your Focusrite.

    If I can ask, what mike are you using that would use the Focusrite as an analogue to digital converter and preamp, but record via Bluetooth to an iPhone as storage?

    Cheers
     
    #41 Rorick Edge, Jun 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  2. Rorick Edge

    Rorick Edge Active Member

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    Christian’s posts (see immediately above) raise an interesting question about using this new Sennheiser product with the Movi.

    As I understand it, the Sennheiser box and the phone communicate via Bluetooth.

    The Movi and the phone also communicate via Bluetooth.

    I have tried and failed to run two Bluetooth connections from an iPhone 8 at the same time.

    Just sayin’

    UPDATE: See the posts below on this new Sennheiser. It looks like it may need only a temporary Bluetooth connection.
     
    #42 Rorick Edge, Jun 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  3. Christian Polloni

    Christian Polloni New Member

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    Thanks a lot for your answer.

    I have a musical duo.
    Vocal and guitar acoustic (I play guitar).
    The two are connected to the focusrite..
    Focusrite connected to my iPhone via lightning..

    For this moment I use an app.
    Irig recorder3.
    Make me able to record two mono tracks separately and the video in the same time..
    The iPhone fixed on a mike stand.

    When the gig finish I download the video and audio on my computer.
    Mix the two tracks together..
    And its done.

    For the future and with the Movi gimbal...
    I know now I need another ios to record the audio..

    Thanks again for your advice.
     
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  4. Rorick Edge

    Rorick Edge Active Member

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    Yes, run your Focusrite into whatever device, other than a phone on a Movi, that you decide to use to store your music.
     
    #44 Rorick Edge, Jun 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  5. Rick Bronks

    Rick Bronks Active Member

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    Actually. The Sennheiser device is stand alone. It does not need s constant BT connection to the phone.

    It’s a bit tricky to know why the device needs the connection because it’s not launched yet but from speaking to Sennheiser it seems to be pretty much a stand alone unit.

    Only the initial setup is done with a connection- then the device will record into its own memory chip.

    The only time it communicates with the phone is when you want to sync the audio track back to the video track but this isn’t done constantly.

    I don’t know if the sync will work with any video recording too. At the moment I think it will only sync the audio back to footage shit with the stock camera app. Filmic Pro support is coming too.

    My hunch is that it just syncs the timecode initially then transfers the file when you’re done. I’m assuming you’d be able to manually do this in an edit suite - but then what’s the point of the device if this is your workflow. You’d be better offf using zoom recorder and a separate mic and just putting it in someone’s pocket.

    However. Have you seen this? I think this may solve a lot of your issues...

    http://tascam.com/product/dr-10l/
     
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  6. Rorick Edge

    Rorick Edge Active Member

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    Thanks for the clarification on the Sennheiser. I’ll have to check it out when it’s released. Sounds like an interesting product.

    I’m familiar with the Tascam but ended up going with the Lectrosonics PDR (Portable Digital Recorder): https://www.lectrosonics.com/US/PDR/product.html

    I also use a DPA d:vice, a two input A-D converter and preamp that records to iOS devices or a Mac or PC laptop: https://www.dpamicrophones.com/dvice

    Lectrosonics video:



    DPA video:

     
  7. Rick Bronks

    Rick Bronks Active Member

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    Looks like you pretty much have all your bases covered? Why do you need even more :)
     
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  8. Rorick Edge

    Rorick Edge Active Member

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    This is a video on the Sennheiser Memory Mic that Rick is talking about. As he says, it looks like it requires only a temporary Bluetooth connection, syncing the time between the phone and the Sennheiser recorder:

     
  9. Rick Bronks

    Rick Bronks Active Member

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    Looks like it's wifi for transferring the files.. either way looks pretty fun for a set and forget thing.
     
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  10. Rorick Edge

    Rorick Edge Active Member

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    The sync must be a simple time of day sync at that price, but all that means is that the sync may be off by a few frames over time. Not a big deal.

    It sounds similar in method to the new Tentacle Sync product, also released at NAB, that syncs DSLR video and sound recorded to a smartphone.

    The main questions are how good the A-D converter, preamp and lavalier mike are. Also, no mention in the video of whether it’s possible to monitor recording.
     
    #50 Rorick Edge, Jun 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  11. Rick Bronks

    Rick Bronks Active Member

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    This is a casual non pro mic setup. It's really aimed at people recording their kids birthday party or school play etc.

    The mic looks the same mic capsule as is on the binaural earphone/headphone things - Ambeo smart headset.

    I'll see if I can get one from Sennheiser when they become available for press reviews and see how it goes.
     
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  12. Rorick Edge

    Rorick Edge Active Member

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    There's finally a fairly detailed video about the Sennheiser Memory Mic (Android & iOS) that Rick Bronks talks about above. In addition to watching the video, it's worth reading the comments on the YouTube site:

     
    #52 Rorick Edge, Sep 7, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
  13. Rorick Edge

    Rorick Edge Active Member

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    And here’s a review of Røde’s new VideoMic Me-L for iOS devices. Two points... The reviewer’s Zhiyun Smooth 4 gimbal was unable to support the mike for more than a minute. Also, this mike plugs straight into the Lightning port. This makes it incompatible with using the Movi counterweight at the same time, and I suspect incompatible even without the counterweight.


     
    #53 Rorick Edge, Sep 9, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
  14. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Rorick, it's a really sketchy solution, but you can get Lightning extension cables. One example here: https://www.amazon.com/aceyoon-Ligh...383&sr=8-4&keywords=lightning+extension+cable but there are many others.

    It's clunky because (a) it's another set of connectors in the circuit, and (b) almost always the cable is not thin and flexible enough....

    But it can be done in extremis. :)

    Cheers
    Andy

    Forensic Software & sUAV / Drone Analyst : Photographer : Videographer : Pilot (Portland, Oregon, USA): Trees=2, Ground=1, Props=11. :(
    The Ground Is The Limit™
    ---------- Forensic Drone Analyst : Forensic sUAV Analyst : Forensic Unmanned Aircraft Analyst : Forensic Drone Expert
     
  15. Rorick Edge

    Rorick Edge Active Member

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    Hi Andy,

    Yes, but then you need to figure out where, and equally importantly how, to mount the mike. It could go on a Hoodie, but the mike does not come with a mount apart from the Lightning plug. You’d need to fashion a DIY clamp. Which is fine, but at that point one has to wonder whether other solutions might make more sense.
     
    #55 Rorick Edge, Sep 9, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
  16. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    I agree....I've used 3M Dual Lock to mount mics before, but it's, as you say, definitely sub-optimal.

    Andy

    Forensic Software & sUAV / Drone Analyst : Photographer : Videographer : Pilot (Portland, Oregon, USA): Trees=2, Ground=1, Props=11. :(
    The Ground Is The Limit™
    ---------- Forensic Drone Analyst : Forensic sUAV Analyst : Forensic Unmanned Aircraft Analyst : Forensic Drone Expert
     
  17. Karen Grant

    Karen Grant New Member

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    Hi everyone. I’ve learned a few things about audio in this thread. I have the Sennheiser Clip mic and the problem I have is that processor on the mic (the little box) interferes with the robot when it is plugged into the iPhone. The movi has a hard time panning to the right. A few months ago, I purchased the Zoom H1N. I wanted to ask what Lav mics are good that will work with this since the clip mic won’t. I’ve read reviews that said this could be used with Lav mics, so which one you you people recommend? I am going to be using it for v-logging.

    Thanks!
    Karen
     
  18. Rorick Edge

    Rorick Edge Active Member

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    Hi Karen,

    I haven't used the Sennheiser ClipMic, but the box you mention is an Apogee analogue to digital converter and preamp. Apogee is a highly regarded company. I wouldn't be in a hurry to dismiss this option if you like the sound. Have you considered a Lightning extension cable? It looks like there are several on the market. Basically, you would plug the ClipMic's male Lightning connector into the female end of the extension cable and the male end of the extension cable into your phone. This would get the box away from the Movi.

    If you want to use the H1n, I think that you should use a condenser rather than dynamic lavalier. However, a condenser mike requires power and the H1n will not provide it. Consequently, you will need a lavalier with its own battery. I don't know enough about what mikes would be appropriate to recommend one. Perhaps someone else can. The reason why a condenser mike is a better choice than a dynamic mike for the H1n is discussed in this review of the H1n by Transom, a highly regarded organisation with ties to National Public Radio: https://transom.org/2018/zoom-h1n/

    Note that your Sennheiser ClipMic works with any iOS device, including an iPod that you may be able to purchase second hand for less than a mike for the H1n. With this setup, or with the H1n, you can record to the iPhone's internal mike at the same time, and use the iPhone's sound recording as a scratch track to synchronise the recording on the iPod or H1N. Also, lots of people use either a clapperboard or hand clap, in addition to, or instead of, this sync method.

    Hope this helps.
     
    #58 Rorick Edge, Sep 15, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
  19. Karen Grant

    Karen Grant New Member

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    Hi Rorick, thanks for your reply. I really do like the Sennheiser. I didn’t even think of a lighting extension cable. I have to make a video by Monday and since I just got the Movi last week, I’ve been playing around with it. When I went to plug in the clip mic to my iPhone to make the movie, that’s when I realized the issue with the cable. So I went looking for other options such as the H1N. I really would like to use the Clip mic. I think you may just have solved my problem. Thank you!!!
     
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  20. Karen Grant

    Karen Grant New Member

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    #60 Karen Grant, Sep 15, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018

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