TERO mod

Discussion in 'Freefly Tero' started by Derek Cooper, Aug 16, 2016.

  1. Derek Cooper

    Derek Cooper Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    522
    Likes Received:
    34
    Hey FF,

    So Wes and I picked up a TERO last week from Eric down in Texas - thanks Eric! We'd been looking at the TERO for some time, but didn't have the cycles to give it the time we felt it would need.

    Our unit arrived on Friday and we immediately got to unpacking and seeing what we had to work with. Wes, my pilot, is a nationally ranked RC racer at 1/8th and 1/10th scale, so he knows his way around RC cars. The HPI Baja frame has a long history and well reputed, so we were keen to see what we had to work with.

    First stop - the Castle ESC - had to go.

    IMG_0364.JPG

    It's an *older* design and prone to failure. In our quick tests with the stock unit, we also noticed a lot of whining, jumpy starts and *confused* forward / backward starts. Ugh.

    Castle came off and thanks to our friends over at HobbyWing, they provided us with a terrific 1/5th scale ESC to test - their EzRun Max 5 - it's their newest ESC and they were keen to hear our thoughts. One word - WOW!

    IMG_0365.JPG

    We had to drill out some larger holes on the mount plate, but other than that, it was a pretty simple replacement. Results are fantastic - if you only do one mod, this is the one!

    Our next replacement - the HPI servo needed to come out. It was very *soft* - wandered slightly at higher speeds and struggled to zero itself for straight runs. In its place - HiTec HS-5765MH - included with the Baja is an adapter plate for mounting this servo - it's a bit narrower than the stock HPI.

    Next on the list - receiver. Not a critical mod, but we prefer Futaba radios and went with the 4PKs radio and the R614FF-E receiver.

    We then took a good look at the shocks - they typically leak on receipt of the units. The gaskets just aren't sized correctly to form a good seal - both tops and bottoms. We thought about shopping around for the right sized gaskets, but in the end, Teflon is your friend and that worked well. Sealed each gasket. Also poured out the stock oil and replaced it with Team Associated oil. 42.5wt front on the HPI 2 hole pistons and 37.5wt rear 3 hole HPI pistons. We set them for "dead," or zero rebound. Nice.

    Last stop - power. We settled on SMC Racing 4S 6700mAh batteries in series for 8S total.

    We are very happy with all the modifications. Let us know if you have any questions!
     
    #1 Derek Cooper, Aug 16, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
  2. Wesley Gurr

    Wesley Gurr New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    1
    These modifications played a massive roll in making the Tero very stable and comfortable to drive. We are far from done our testing.

    The next step in improving the performance of the Tero, we will be playing with differential setups, the viscosity of fluid will be determined by the surface the Tero will be driving on, and the traction level.

    Another step in improving performance will include thicker sway bars to limit the chassis roll, this will allow the Tero to perform turns at higher speeds without risking a traction roll. Another item that may be used to reduce roll - droop limiters, the best option for this may be MIP Limit Straps.

    The next adjustment on the list will be a general wheel alignment, we will apply a 1 degree toe out adjustment to the front wheels, and use -2 degrees of camber on all four wheel and adjust from there depending on when is required of the handling.

    We will also play with the settings onboard the ESC and tweak them accordingly, when our preferred ESC adjustments are found we will post them for others to try!

    A strong recommendation when using 8s to power your Tero, is to acquire a 12t pinion to mount on the Castle 800KV Motor. Using a bigger pinion gear will make the Tero way too fast to drive with a Movi mounted.

    Some of these adjustments come down to personal preference, with a background in RC racing, these adjustments will make the Tero comfortable for me to drive, others may have a different opinion.

    Feel free to ask for clarity on any adjustments, we will be willing to give you our opinion on them!
     
  3. Guillaume MARION

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2014
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    15
    Derek, after your request I'm posting here!

    So looks that you done lost of changes on the original TERO, then I'm thinking to base my research on an other chassis. The actual BAJA starting to be old and ESC old stuff....!

    I Would also think that 4 wheels drive could answer better for smooth start and better balance of the power. The traxxas X MAXX is my target, I really love freefly product but think that TERO concept could be better!

    Wheels are much bigger (about 21cm), and shocks are fixed really higher than gravity center so could be an interesting option!

    What do you think about that?

    Thanks
     
  4. Wesley Gurr

    Wesley Gurr New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hey Guillaume,

    If you are looking for somthing to replace the Tero, I recomend using the Losi 5th scale chassis. This is a very solid design and will out perform the Xmaxx. Losi has designed this model off of the proven 1/8th scale chassis design. This machine has 4 wheel drive and a centre differential to distribute power front and rear. With a heavy aluminum chassis this allows the centre of gravity to be lower then many other chassis in its class. Parts are very rugged. I don't see Losi discontinuing this chassis anytime soon, as it has been leading in the 5th scale world.
    Check out the different chassis types in the Losi 5th scale line.
     
  5. Derek Cooper

    Derek Cooper Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    522
    Likes Received:
    34
    I'll add my 2 cents - the TERO is a very cool piece of engineering. There is nothing *wrong* with the stock unit direct from FF - you'll get a great piece of gear. The carbon fibre customizations FF has come up with to the Baja Flux frame and the suspended cheese plate is awesome. Don 't discount the FF TERO - we only mod'd ours to behave the way we wanted it to behave - that's all.
     
    Guillaume MARION likes this.
  6. Derek Cooper

    Derek Cooper Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    522
    Likes Received:
    34
    We are going to replace the stock 14T pinion with a Castle Creations 12T to slow the machine down a bit.
     
  7. Jose Luis Ocejo

    Jose Luis Ocejo Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Messages:
    574
    Likes Received:
    43
    Hi Wesley and DerekI have read all of your post on the Tero modifications you have done to your Tero I recently acquire a car that is in its initial tests it runs good but I have some questions if you don't mind

    Esc: did you guys change any of the programing stock settings

    Transmitter : it came with a cheap no known brand transmitter it works, has a lcd screen to change settings but is no Futaba or Spectrum or other known brand does it makes a real difference for this application to get a brand name transmitter

    Shocks: I read your post on changing the oil
    have you guys settle on the grade for the front and the back shock,
    did you guys change to stronger or different springs
    when the car is loaded and you push down on the front or on the back
    how fast does it come up,
    does it bounce back fast, when you push down
    or it lags or kind of gets stuck
    14 Lbs camera and plate weight:
    have you guys got the Tero loaded to this optimal camera weight for the wire isolators to perform and see results can the stock shock/spring tension take this weight

    Pinion: Have you guys change the pinion from 14t to 12t if so do you like it
    any other tip would greatly appreciated

    thanks guys for sharing
     
  8. Wesley Gurr

    Wesley Gurr New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hey Jose,

    So for the ESC,
    You should decrease the Punch Control value to a lower level then stock. I would be temped to try all the way down and then raise it up if it feels too sluggish.
    For this application the smoother the throttle is on "take off" the smoother the shot will look all said and done.

    As for the transmitter,
    A higher end transmitter will always be a great upgrade,
    The main advantages of using a higher end transmitter will be the flexibility of setting the failsafe mode, this is an option which comes into play when the receiver looses the transmitters signal, if set correctly the Tero will not take off out of control while loss of signal. The other advantage to think about is the reliability of the transmitter, with an expensive machine/payload it is always a good idea to have a reliable transmitter.
    But the transmitter is not necessary to get good results.

    Shocks,
    So the viscosity of the oil will directly effect the rebound speed of the shocks, thicker viscosity = slower speeds. Generally our Tero is driven on the flat ground, in this case we would use higher weight oil in the shock to gain stability while driving(slower rebound). If the Tero was running on rough ground, using lower weight oil(faster rebound) will have vibration dampening advantages.

    When feeling the rebound in the shocks, it is preferred to have no up and down oscillation when pressing down on the vehicle and letting go. A preferred setup would show the shocks rebounding and coming to a stop without bouncing around(how fast it rebounds all comes down to what surface you are running on).

    With our Tero we decided to go with a Team Associated 42.5 weight front oil and a 37.5 weight rear oil, for general purpose use.

    While running the Tero our wire isolators are always working hard, we are amazed at how well it reduces vibration, what a great design!

    We have not played with Spring rates yet, it could be a good idea to play with, stiffer springs should act as if the car responds faster in turns, this may not be desired when trying to be smooth with the vehicle. But we won't know unless we try!

    Pinion
    Very well worth getting the 12T, we do not see the need for the high speeds reached with the 14T. The 12T has made the take off speed more controllable for sure.

    Let me know if there is anything I did not answer and I will do my best to help!
     
    Derek Cooper likes this.
  9. Jose Luis Ocejo

    Jose Luis Ocejo Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Messages:
    574
    Likes Received:
    43
    Thanks Wess
    ESC i did lower the punch control from 3 to 2 Il test tomorrow I will also try 1

    Yes on the transmitter Il probably get a better one

    Shocks:
    the shocks have been a process of learning what grade oil is best, this particular shocks have in them the kind of piston that has the very tiny holes so I experimented with several grades and for now I had to settle on grade 20 because anything higher makes the shock very stiff, (I will probably go even lower) I research a dealer that sell a lot of baja parts and they sell new baja shocks and recommend grade 5 oil for the rear, quite a difference, I also learn that you can change the piston for ones with large holes, so now this is another variable, I wonder, do you remember when you change the oil in your shocks if the piston in your baja has the tiny holes or larger ones ?
     
  10. Wesley Gurr

    Wesley Gurr New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    1
    So the way it works with the pistons, I a bit tough to grasp right away.
    But basically it comes down to the surface the Tero is driven on.

    For situations where the Tero will be driving over small bumps and slower driving style, to achieve a better dampening affect, use the pistons with more, smaller holes.

    For situations where the Tero will be driving over larger bumps and faster driving style, less, larger holes.
    This will make the Tero maintain stability while driving in those conditions.

    The science behind this is the type of flow through the piston, laminar vs turbulent flow.
    To learn more about these types of flow through a piston, do a Google search on "laminar vs turbulent flow" and you should be able to find something.

    As for what we run in our Tero, I decided to run with the larger, less holes, and the oil you want to use is Lucas Oil from Team associated, 42.5wt front and 37.5wt rear. The reason I recommend this oil is because it is high quality oil and I have spent many years using this stuff and found it to always last long and is always very consistent. At the end of the day any oil will be fine, but no 2 brands are the same, so using one brand and sticking with it will allow you to be consistent with your dampening setup.
     
  11. Jose Luis Ocejo

    Jose Luis Ocejo Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Messages:
    574
    Likes Received:
    43
    Hi Wess and Derek at the end what servo motor you guys settle for I think I read on another post you where deciding on on or other any other mod you guys have liked
    thanks
     
  12. Derek Cooper

    Derek Cooper Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    522
    Likes Received:
    34
    We went with a less powerful HiTec as the powerful one we wanted is too deep to fit in the recess. I can have a look at the rig to confirm model # if you need it?
     
  13. Jose Luis Ocejo

    Jose Luis Ocejo Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Messages:
    574
    Likes Received:
    43
    Hi Derek yes if you don't mind could you help me with the model number of your HiTec servo motor
    thanks
     
  14. Derek Cooper

    Derek Cooper Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    522
    Likes Received:
    34
  15. henry bridges

    henry bridges New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  16. Derek Cooper

    Derek Cooper Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    522
    Likes Received:
    34
    Yes.

    No time for testing? Eeek... bad idea my friend... our settings work for our system, our shock absorbers, our payload...
     
  17. henry bridges

    henry bridges New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for your reply.
    I didn't say no time. I said I'm more rushed than I'd like.
    Did the Ez cure jumpy starts? Any help you can be would be gratefully excepted.
    Thanks.
     
  18. Derek Cooper

    Derek Cooper Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    522
    Likes Received:
    34
    My pleasure.

    Yes indeed, and I'm not sure what additional help you need that isn't already explained in this post? Can you clarify what you need at this point?
     
  19. henry bridges

    henry bridges New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Derek,
    All I'm after is reassurance that changing the ESC to an Ez Run 5max cured the jumpy start and makes the Tero smooth at very low speeds.
    Thanks again.
     
  20. Wolf Schiebel

    Wolf Schiebel Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    67
    Hi ,

    i can confirm that. I use this ESC in my mockup 4Wd car, which was even more jumpy than the original Tero. You can smoothen it up also by using a lot of Expo (i use up to 50%).

    Best, Wolf
     

Share This Page