Tuning Settings when switching from Handheld to MoVI Ring

Discussion in 'MōVI M5' started by Ricardo Mor, Aug 20, 2016.

  1. Ricardo Mor

    Ricardo Mor Member

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    Hello everybody,

    Iam searching for experiences from other MoVI Users Or experts who can Tell me what to do.

    My Normaly set up is. Handheld, Sony a7s, Zeiss CP.2 Lens , Pix-e 7 Monitor, Wireless follow focus, powerbank for my paralinx, lipo Batterie for the Red Rock base Station and Red Rock torque motor. And sometimes a ND Filter and Headlight. See Pictures please. Thala Really Heavy.. Trust me. :)

    Now i want to change from Handheld to the MoVI Ring with following Gear:
    All the Same like Above but changing To a lighter Monitor (5 inch Small Hd) and mounting a Headlight.

    Do you need to change the Tuning Settings?

    In Generall, do you retune your MoVI if you switch between Handheld, MoVI Ring oder MoVI ON tripod? ( i expect to use the Same Heavy gear )

    Switching from handheld to the Ring it is probably the Same Gear. But on tripod the Monitor, red rock base Station , powerbank, lipo batterie are mounted on tripod. So the MoVi does not have to carry more Stuff.. So the tuning Settings vary, or not?

    Thanks in advice and attention.
     

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  2. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Ricardo: The short answer is yes, you need to retune your settings every time you change the physical setup of the MoVI.

    The longer answer is that every time you alter the masses in motion and the resonant frequencies of the MoVI and how you hold it and/or support it, you may find that you will get oscillations occurring. The gimbal controller needs to be tuned to get maximum responsiveness without these oscillations occurring.

    That said, you may find that you can change from one setup to another and NOT experience oscillations, but you are just being lucky when that happens! :)

    Andy.

    Forensic Software & sUAV / Drone Analyst : Photographer : Videographer : Pilot (Portland, Oregon, USA): Trees=2, Ground=1, Props=11. :(
    The Ground Is The Limit™
    ---------- Forensic Drone Analyst : Forensic sUAV Analyst : Forensic Unmanned Aircraft Analyst : Forensic Drone Expert
     
  3. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    Hi Ricardo, that's a good-looking setup.

    I agree with Andy: while we technically should re-tune, I switch mounting configurations a lot and don't have to re-tune. I'm on an M15, which is a larger setup than yours, so you may have a different experience.

    If I was going from handlebars to ring or tripod\slider, I wouldn't normally need to re-tune, and for simple lens swaps, like changing from a 25 to a 50mm prime that weighs a similar (but not exactly the same) amount, I also don't typically re-tune. We do try to get the balance right during a lens swap or a mount change-over, especially on the tilt axis.

    That said, if you're changing weights significantly, and you're experiencing oscillations or high pitched motor noise, you should re-tune.

    In your case, it sounds like you may not be adding (or subtracting) weight to the cage, but to the handles\ring instead, which shouldn't change your motor tuning as much, since they don't affect the strain on the motors.
     
  4. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    I've found that even switching from wanting to hold the MoVI one-handed to two-handed can require re-tuning some times.
    So to adapt the Internet meme of YMMV (your mileage may vary):

    YTMV. Your tuning may vary. :rolleyes:

    Andy

    Forensic Software & sUAV / Drone Analyst : Photographer : Videographer : Pilot (Portland, Oregon, USA): Trees=2, Ground=1, Props=11. :(
    The Ground Is The Limit™
    ---------- Forensic Drone Analyst : Forensic sUAV Analyst : Forensic Unmanned Aircraft Analyst : Forensic Drone Expert
     
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  5. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    I'm surprised to hear that, Andy, because I find my M15 really easy and fast to work with, but definitely want to hear more. Maybe there's something I'm missing, or maybe it's the beefy setup. You obviously have a lot of Movi experience.

    Do you re-tune because you're having oscillations or buzzing? Just from switching handgrips? And are you talking about a full auto-tune or a manual adjustment to motor stiffness? Auto-tune takes 2 minutes, and it's hard for me to get that kind of time on a film set every time we want to swap a lens or change configuration.

    I typically run an auto-tune at the end of the camera build\prep, and then don't touch it. Maybe once a day on a shoot, I'll do a 50% auto-tune in the morning, and maybe do a manual confirmation if the stiffness numbers seem out of whack. I rarely notice problems when we go from Handheld to mounted on the Ninja star, or when we change lenses or add filters. I can even remove the matte box and just re-balance, and I don't see a need to re-tune.

    Every once in a while, I'll notice some motor buzzing or oscillation and we'll adjust, but it's pretty rare. I use the PLC Geared Wheel controller a lot with the Movi. It's always set up by the monitor, even when we're handheld, because we may need to do a fast switch to a lock-off or dual operated shot. The tablet\app is at the ready, but usually I find we're making adjustments to windows and smoothing, or zero-ing the PLC radios out with it. Rarely a motor tuning is needed.

    Would love to hear more specifics of your experiences. Thanks Andy!
     
  6. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    I've noticed the need to retune more on the M5 with a GH4 (that is, a light MoVI with a light camera). I suspect it may be that the total mass in motion is on the light side that means it's a little more sensitive to the tuning. I'm typically flying the MoVI, and so lens changes don't happen as often as terrestrial shoots I suspect.

    Andy

    Forensic Software & sUAV / Drone Analyst : Photographer : Videographer : Pilot (Portland, Oregon, USA): Trees=2, Ground=1, Props=11. :(
    The Ground Is The Limit™
    ---------- Forensic Drone Analyst : Forensic sUAV Analyst : Forensic Unmanned Aircraft Analyst : Forensic Drone Expert
     
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  7. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting, thanks for the reply.

    Because you're describing a light-weight setup, any small changes to the weight may be a large percentage of the total. In my case, even with my lighter Canon 5D setup, it's still heavier than a GH4, especially with focus motor and receiver, and Sigma Art series prime lenses. Yesterday, I added a Variable ND filter when we went outside, and changed lenses many times, and we never adjusted the tuning.

    The RED and Arri setups I do are probably 10-12 lbs, so even more mass, and little changes probably don't affect as much overall. I can imagine lighter cameras may be more fiddly with the stiffness values.
     
  8. Ricardo Mor

    Ricardo Mor Member

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    thanks for your answers guys. Sorry for the late reply. I was on trip. But my experience is that if we change without re-tune, from Handheld to Ring or from Ring to tripod we have no oscillations. So, perhaps we are lucky. :D If we change from Ring to Tripod and it has to be quickly, we rebalance sometimes only the Tilt axis. But if you don't do this it is not so terrible, but the Tilt motor works harder.. The other way is to invert the camera and you have to rebalance it again. but i think if you rebalance the tilt without inverting the camera , it's ok too. Good results.
     

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