Tiger motors 4012 and beyond

Discussion in 'Cinestar Misc' started by Jose Luis Ocejo, Nov 14, 2013.

  1. Cedar Beauregard

    Cedar Beauregard New Member

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    Here are the thrust test videos I did with the MN4012-9 motors with different props etc..







    Password: i2c


    Password: i2c
     
  2. Bryan Harvey

    Bryan Harvey Member

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    Maybe the U8 is too much, but how does the T Motor U7 fit into this comparison? They seem like they are made for the job with some nice design improvements specifically for heavy lift. Does anyone here have any experience with these
     
  3. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Bryan

    Looking at the data of the U7 and plugging in some numbers to Ecalc and it looks like it might be good for many applications. At first I was a little concerned when I saw some of the huge thrust numbers but plugging in the data here's some applicaitons where it might be useful.
    *If you want to retain 14 inch props at a GAW up to 7.9KG
    *If you want to avoid going to 16 inch props and 550 booms you can run this motor with 15" props very efficiently up to 10.5gk with a hover of 66%.
    *Run up to 12kg (26 pounds) with 16 inch props very efficiently with a hover of 64%.

    So it seems to me this motor gives you a lot of flexible with GAW's of 6.8 or higher by allowing you to simply change the size of the prop depending upon your flight weight. It also seems like you can get some really killer flying time if your not running crazy weight. I see flying time with the U7 as better than the 4012-9 480KV's.

    My only concern is that we don't know how much current the new BL3.0's can handle or what they are rated too. I would be concerned that if you gave it too much throttle juice it might just start reaching excessive current amounts. Looking at the specs you can get 2000g of thrust pretty quick.

    I would love to hear what others think too.
     
  4. Chris Fox

    Chris Fox Active Member

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    G'Day Dave,

    The U7 do look interesting .... enough so I have some U7 and U8 on order to test out. Hopefully they will arrive later this month, and I can start two new builds by Jan.

    I like the look of an x8 with U8 and I am interested to try, (unless anyone already has and can rule it out as a bad idea) a flat octco with the U7 and all the even motors on the bottom side, allowing the use of 17 or 18 props ....

    Cheers
    Chris
     
  5. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Dave why would you target a hover value of 65%? eCalc is usually a bit optimistic. Perhaps target 50%?
     
  6. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Gary its actually a type it should be 64%. I'm not targeting 64% but if worst case scenario is a hover of 64% with a maximum payload that would ever run (I mean run on a blue moon) I could live with that. What are you thoughts on these motors for GAW's of 7 to 10kg?
     
  7. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    None. My head is spinning to fast with the number of choices many of which are so new that we don't have any flight details.

    Also as the power is going up so is the weight of the motors. U7's are 255g's. Maybe jump to the 12S U11 at 730g each and at with the small 26" prop at 57% thrust giving 6kg. Shoot a quad would lift 24kg. What more could you want....:eek:
     
  8. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

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    [quote="Gary Haynes, post: 34481, member: 47”]...26" prop at 57% thrust giving 6kg. Shoot a quad would lift 24kg. What more could you want....:eek:[/quote]


    Good grief. That’s not a sUAS, that’s an AIRCRAFT. :eek:
     
  9. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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  10. Jose Luis Ocejo

    Jose Luis Ocejo Active Member

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    exiting times ahead
     
  11. Jose Luis Ocejo

    Jose Luis Ocejo Active Member

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    Hi Cedar thanks for the test so i take it that you are pretty happy with the 4012 -480Kv motors
    what is your average All around Weight
     
  12. Jim Froom

    Jim Froom New Member

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    Dave King, I just found this thread and after looking over some of your Tiger motor charts, it appears your charts show similar results as to what I'm looking for. I'm looking for something in the 7.8kg to 10kg. I think the new tiger u5 and Avroto 3515 have the exact results from the tiger 3515/ 400kva.

    I look at thrust, amps, efficiency, throttle and temp at 50 and 65 %. My conclusion, more guesswork than intelligence, is for the 8kg to 10kg range, I'd probably be happy with the Tiger U5 or Avrotoe 3515. What concerns me a little, is on occasion I might go a little lighter than 8kg and I'm seeing some 35% to 42% throttle idle numbers. I also found the 16x5 prop size to be the sweet spot for what I'm looking at. When I go down in prop size, it doesn't seem to help in terms of flight/hoover time and sometimes actually increases temperatures.

    Is it a big concern if eCalc is showing the 40% throttle in regards to flying and filming? I'm never hoovered on either my octo or quad at 40%, so I'm not sure what the negatives would be.

    I read Jim's post from Montrorc, and in my case, I guess I'm willing to give up a little efficiency in the mid weight area, to be able to go heavier with less heat and stress on the motors. Is that a reasonable conclusion? Also, to spend $30 or more per motor on better built motor with better bearings seems like a good investment when carrying expensive camera gear.

    Thanks for sharing all your charts, very helpful.
     
  13. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    jfro can you please change your name to your real name?

    U5 motors look similar yes but I have no idea on the Avroto specs. I haven't found any motor specs like Tiger publishes. 40% throttle at hover is actually very very good. The less effiicient the system the more thrust at hover it will take and thus more throttle.

    I also think that a good motor choice would be one where you can use 14" props for smaller GAW's and then use up to 16" props for the heavier loads.

    For me this is a very difficult choice because many people really like the build quality of the Avroto's, but it appears that the new U5 and U7 motors have just about the same quality plus Tiger motors are really reputable and have excellent experience and a great track record.
     
  14. Jim Froom

    Jim Froom New Member

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    Sorry on the name. I signed up here long time ago, but this might have been 1st post.

    In ecalc, Tiger mt 3515 400kv and u5 have the exact same specs. Jim at Montrorc answered an email and said Avroto 3515 and Tiger 3515 will have same specs. So, pretty good guess Avroto 3515 and Tiger U5 will be equal to each other. He has also posted the same on some forums. I believe the main jist of the new Tigers & Avroto's is a better build for better reliability. Mostly better cooling, better bearings, better wire material, and better/ redesigned housing.

    I'm leaning towards the u5 or Avroto 3515 as it will give me a pretty decent flying rig in the 13-22 lb range with 18-19lbs being my sweet spot. For the most part, 14" to 16" props will work keeping hoover throttle in the 50% range with proper props. The only issue that I see is for the 19+ lb weight, esp, over 20, you will want to use 40C or higher 6s batteries. The temps on full throttle get a bit high over 20lbs, but I don't ever fly full throttle, so I'd monitor the temps when flying.

    As to the Tiger u5 vs the Avroto 3515, I think it will be a tossup. The shaft sizes are the same. Tiger talks about extra cooling in the design, but I think Avroto has that also.

    If I see another sale on Tiger motors at 10-15% off, it would probably sway me as that's pretty good savings. I haven't ever seen a dealer with Avroto's do a sale like that, but 6 or more times a year, someone will put the Tigers on sale.

    I'm not worrying about carry a Red Epic or similar heavy camera, so the u5 or Avroto 3515 is all I need. I believe that cameras are getting better and smaller. I may cut 1.5lbs off my gimbal weight this week as I have a very light weight (g3/Black Magic Pocket cam ) gimbal coming next week and that will bring my weight requirements down or increase my flight time by adding more battery.

    It might be a pipe dream, but it would certainly be fun to fly with a light weight gh3 or BMPC and have hoover times show up at around 21-22 minutes with 2- 10,000 mah 35c + 6s batteries. Maybe get a 14-15 minute slow fly flight out of it....
     
  15. Guilherme Barbosa

    Guilherme Barbosa Distributor

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    Hey Chris i got my mind thinking the same aproach as i do love my x8's just need more time on air for fully loaded red with prime and follow focus, hd trans
     
  16. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

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    Why go with the Avroto 3515 or Tiger 3515 when the better built and stronger Avroto 3520-400kv is available. This motors does not heat up like the T-3515 and is a stronger more durable motor. The Avroto 3520 uses a 5mm shaft while the 3515s use a 4mm shaft.

     
  17. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    One thing that seems really nice about the U5 and U7 motors is that they are water proof and dirt resistent and they seem to also have the same quality as the Avroto's. The U5 and U7's also look like they don't take a C clip to hold the shaft and bearing in like the older motors. I'll try to load the U5 and U7 specs in Ecalc and see how they compare to the rest of the motors on the list.
     
  18. Jim Froom

    Jim Froom New Member

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    Howard, I'm looking in the 13-22lb range with 18lbs or so being my most used auw. I'll probably go with the Tiger U5. I have 40 amp ESC's that will work so my modification is only Motors, Props, and some new 6s batteries. It fits my budget and needs. I like the added cooling, water and dirt resistance of the new motors. I'm also not wanting to go to 45 or 60amp ESC's.

    I do not have a need to carry an Epic or similar camera. 5D size and down is good enough for me. I also believe with the quality improvements happening in the digital camera world, smaller, lighter and better are the trends will keep me away from needing 22-30lbs of auw on a multirotor.

    Question. In ECalc, there is a pretty good gap between flight time, mixed flight, and hoover. Most of my flying is LOS and drifting as opposed to crazy flying. I would think if eCalc gives 2.8 for flight time, 3.9 for mixed, and 11 min for hoover, is 6-7-8 minutes realistic? I never use full throttle and so far, haven't been chasing cars or boats, so I'm looking for opinions as I've never really paid much attention to eCalc until recently.
     
  19. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    OK I did a bunch of crunching in Ecalc for a few motors that I am considering right now. Jim at MontoRC told me that the specs on the Avroto motors are about identical to Tigers motors. In Elcalc I could only find the MT version for the 3520-11-400's but they should be the same as the newer navigation motors with just better bearings and build specs.

    For me I can't run 16" props because my copter won't fit in my trunk with 550 booms so I'm limited to 500mm booms and 15" props. My GAW will be somewhere in the 9 to 10KG range. The only thing I see that will work for me are the U7 420's at that of weight.

    Howard: I'm not sure how the 3520's would be big enough unless the Avarto specs are quite different from Tigers specs.

    For those that are planning on flying red cameras I can't see anyone under a GAW of 20 pounds. TO me looking at the specs below and the ones I posted in this thread before I don't see how any motor other than the U7's will be enough motor to hover with a targeted throttle in the 50% range. That's how I am seeing the data at least and again this is only an estimation from software but I would imagine its pretty close based upon people's experiences with Ecalc.

    Any thoughts?




    3520 motors.jpg
    U5-U7 motors.jpg
     
  20. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Dave:
    Looks like a lot of work!
    Could you consider posting the data sorted on a primary key of weight, and a secondary key of hover time? I don't think the forum software allows you to post the data as an .xls file so that folks can sort the data into different sequences...but if you can compress the .xls into a .zip file you could post that if you are so inclined. :)

    Andy.
     

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