Yeah that't what I am waiting for is when the BMC or hell the next LUMIX GHX iterations are at this. When it is 4K and the size of a pocket cinema camera. We already have Gopro doing for 4K granted at 15 frames but it wont be long before it will be at higher rates. I am not using EF anymore. I bought some vintage Russian glass knockoff of leica lenses and some ENG lenses for my GH2. I am getting impressive results. Haven't flown them yet, waiting my HL build.
My understanding is that they want 4K so they can get more when cropping down to 1080. I agree the customer wants C500's and RED's which is why I am building an HL. My point is that in a few years maybe longer the RED and others smaller and lighter. Before RED you had Arie and Pananvision, now you have reds and black magics. Who know whats next. My intent was not too start a debate, just simply philosophizing
Sure one day a camera the size and weight of a dime will give you RED performance. However, by that time there will be something that is 50X better that all production companies, newstations etc all use. Broadcast and industrial style cameras are always robust in design so that they stand up to the day to day use of packing/unpacking etc. They will always be 10X heavier than consumer products IMO.
That will be true to a point but because technology moves exponentially it will converge. The consumer market is converging on the pro market. I think we are going to see a lot of consumer cameras released in 4K range soon. 4K seems to be the standard at the moment. There is one economic factor that drives the equipment in this industry now, and that is the infrastructure for the end user, i.e. the Movie theater. Before the industry starts making huge investment in 8k and 10k or larger resolution they will have to compel Regal and Cinemark to make a huge infrastructure investment. This does the drive the industry and why more things are being shot on digital versus 35mm Panavision celluoiod. My understanding on why most DP's shoot 4K is so it can downed to 2k but allow headroom for editing. Here in New Mexico where a bunch movies and TV shows are shot, they use the Arie Alexa as their workhorse, no pun intended. I know that flop The Lone Ranger out here, that they were using 5DMKIII's for all of the practical horse shots. Most of the movie was shot on RED. I think form factor is real important to the industry. ENG cameras as you mention are smaller then what they were 10 years ago. I have old Panasonic SVHS ENG camera. The size is about 3 times what the current ENG equipment is. The news industry is a big reason Canon added video capability to the 7D and 5D series cameras, they wanted small form factor. Aries are smaller than film cameras. Right now form factor is large because of processing power and data write speeds. A big part of the Aries form factor is due to cooling baffles inside. As processing power and data speeds are enhanced in smaller packages, this will open more capabilities then before. We will have access to better capable cameras, yeah an 8K Alexa may come out, but they will do it because they will be down converting for 4K projectors and will wan the head room for editing. More capablites will give us more options to provide the end product for the customer, and that's all that will matter at the end of the day. IMO the only thing wont change in form factor will be the lenses. I watch the documentary "The great cinema shootout," where the Lumix GH2 came in second in a "blind taste test," against the Red Epic and the SONY FS100 coming in underneath the Alexa. In fact Francis Ford Copella unknowingly voted the GH2 the best above the Alexa!. So at the end of the day we will have more options there will most likely be a nugget out there that we will have that will run up against RED's and Aries with the same if not better capabilities for certain requirements.
Guys bringing back to the topic of current motors here is an attempt to compare Tiger specs on some of the motors I am looking at see what you think, to me is about the motors and gear that we have now available to us not the ones that are in planing.
hmm ... looking at that makes me think of trying some 16" props on the 3515 ..... I have a stash of longer booms floating around somewhere, just can't fit it in the ute with the extra diameter though ...
It's a ute, Chris. Take the back door off, leave the windows open or take the side doors off. You'll fit right in, out in the bush... Andy.
OK guys Let's talk motor tech. I talked to Quadrocopter about what they use for their heavy lift motors and they say they use the new MN4012's. I went on Tiger's website and compared the MT3515's to the MN4012's and found some interesting data. Interesting Tidbits Tiger doesn't give any specs on the new navigator MN4012's with 6S and 15 and 16" props. They only give data on 6S with 13 and 14" props. QC said that they had best results with the new Tiger 15X5.5 props though. They mentioned that they were getting 12 minutes flight time with one 6S battery and a 12 pound payload which should be approx a flying weight of 17 pounds. My copter weights 5 pounds. Now comparing the MT3515's to the new MN3515's the specs are same, the new MN Navigator motors just a much improved high level E-ZO bearing. So the MT3515's are really obsolete now. It's really hard to compare the MN3515's to the MN4012's because the 3515's are 400kv adn the 4012's that QC sells are 480kv although you can get them in 400kv on special order. Since Tiger doesn't give any relative data for the 4012's on a 15" prop with 6C its hard to compare apples to apples but if I use the 14" prop data on the 4012's and compare that to the 14 and 15" prop data I conclude that the 3515's look like a better selection for lighter AUW's such as 5000-7000 grams because they appear (at least on paper) to much more efficient in the 50% to 65% range. They pull less current and consume less power with a much higher efficiency g/w spec at 50-65% throttle. Now paper specs and fliying characteristics are two different things. I think the MN motors are comparable to the Avroto motors. If you haven't seen the writeup about them check it out. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2014321 What I like about the Avroto motors are they produced in Ohio, have 5mm shafts, and don't use C clips. They are also painted white which helps reduce temps in the summer time. What I'm not sure of is how they would mount to the cinestar frame. I think I would need to make some custom motor plates. I really think that the copters AUW plays a large role into which motor works best. For me its a toss up between the new MN3515's, the MN4012's or the Avroto 3520's. Decisons, Decisons.................... Feedback?
Dave SleepyC is pretty happy with them. One note though. They are not built in Ohio. From other posts they are likely built by Tiger. The article says they are 'inspected' in Ohio. Not sure that being painted white will have any effect on temps. That was tried on a large scale by the airlines. In their case the weight of the paint was worse for fuel economy for any value of the heat reflection over bare aluminum. Solar heating of the bell likely is not the issue of heat build up in our motors.
Few places have the access and the availability of different motors and the availability for testing several motor like the folks at Quadrocopter have wether their own branded TG as well as the directly branded HL TG motors I am sure QC have tested several TG models and several KV on their HL copters it would be super nice if any one from QC could share with us their findings so we can make better decisions on the motors to buy
Jose. Best thing is to call them, they will are alway willing to talk. I talked to QC yesterday. They said the 4012's are what they are putting in all of their HL's. They said that they have special ordered them to come with pig tails so they can plug into the MK BL's. From what I understand they already did the testing. If I am going to purchase Tiger motors I will go with 4012's.
Dave, we have the 4012's installed on a Vulcan UAV frame and are very happy with them. We fly 15*5 Xoar Beechwoods on it. We are seeing similar results to QC. We'll be sticking with the 4012's for a while...
Dave looks like the Avroto's may be the same as the new Tiger U5 motors. Another new line from Tiger that goes all the way up to the monster U8 that Kopterworx has the 24-26" props on.
I bought their last four 4014's assuming they were getting good results from them. Then two weeks later I they started to stock 4012's. Interesting thing a out the 4014's from QC was that they came in different boxes, and have no label but look the same as my tiger labeled motors.
Yeah I think you are right because they are talking about German parts and I don't see any c clips either.
Here's an odd question for the ether. Does Tiger actually make these motors? Or are they branding them with their logos and putting them in a nicer foam lined box? My theory that the motors come from Chinese factory X and brand them Tiger while RC timer brands then with their logo and Foxtech etc. I see similar motors with same specs on those sites. Shaun