Things you did not know about the Radian

Discussion in 'Radian' started by Tabb Firchau, Sep 26, 2012.

  1. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Mario:
    Do you happen to have an MK USB adapter? If so you can use it to debug the software/PC side of things by using a program called Hyperterminal and setting up a "loop back test" that will test that you can send data out from the USB port, and loop it back into the USB port.

    That would then eliminate the PC/operating system/USB port as the problem.

    Andy.
     
  2. Mario de Roos

    Mario de Roos Member

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    Andy,

    Not anymore :(

    Mario
     
  3. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Mario it doesn't tell us what COM driver is being used. Also are you running on the Mac or a Windows machine?
     
  4. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Oh. That's too bad.
    You can buy USB loop-back plugs that come with software so you can test that way, or build your own: http://www.instructables.com/id/USB-tester/#step1

    The other hypothesis is that all three Radians may have failed, but I very much doubt that. But if you suspect that is the case, you should contact your dealer.

    My hunch is that it is the PC/software/USB port that is the problem. I've had problems with USB ports under VMWare Fusion and Parallels, so I switched over to using Bootcamp and haven't had any problems since. Might that be an option for you?

    Andy.
     
  5. Mario de Roos

    Mario de Roos Member

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    Gary/Andy,

    I have the following equiperend that needs an USB connection and all are working without any problem on the Imac (some need Parallels)
    and my two laptops, or the Radian programer need some alien USB drivers supported only on Freefly computers, or (what I think) I have a faulty USB programmer.

    Mario

    Graupner MX-20 Hott + RX
    Jeti DC-16 + RX
    Jeti box Pro
    AutoQuad 6 FC
    AutoQuad 32 ESC's
    Open Pilot FC's
    Nano Wii
    YS-X6 FC
    VStabi
    MGM compro ESC's
    Two Hyperion duo chargers
    Two Unilog systems
    Card readers
    3 USB drives
    GH2 camera
    Sony 730E video recorder
    AVRISP MKII programer
    Ipad 3
    three Iphones
    Etc Etc Etc......
     
  6. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Hi Mario:

    How many of those items use the USB connector via the USB Serial Port driver, please? (Most devices use the USB port "natively" as a USB device, rather than using the USB Serial Device driver.)

    If there are one or more that use the USB Serial Device driver, then I agree with you. The USB and USB Serial Device driver are working correctly.

    However, if those devices use the USB port only as a native USB device and are NOT using the USB Serial Device driver, then it's not a fair test, I'm afraid.

    But, as you say, I think the best thing would be to contact your dealer about getting a new Radian USB converter -- if that fixes the problem then you are correct that the USB converter is the culprit. If it still does not fix the problem, then that would suggest that the USB Serial Device driver might be the issue. You could try uninstalling that device driver and re-installing it. (If you are using Windows 7 or 8 this will happen automatically -- you have to do the install Manually for Windows XP.)

    Just before you contact your dealer: have you tried a different USB cable? It would be a shame to go to all that trouble only to discover the cable is bad.

    Andy
     
  7. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Mario. On the Mac here's what I would do.

    Shut everything down and restart the Mac.
    Disconnect the Radian USB.
    After the Mac restarts launch just Parallels, not your Windows machine. I don't remember exactly where it is but in the menus in Parallels there is a spot where you can see USB devices. Make sure all of them are disconnected.
    Launch your windows machine in parallels.
    Connect the USB adapter to the Radian and power up the Radian.
    Connect the USB cable from the Mac to the Radian USB. See if you don't get a popup window that asks whether you want to connect to Windows or Mac. Choose Windows. It's been awhile since I used Parallels so if you don't get the popup just make sure that you have a the USB saying Connected in the Parallels window.
    Start Windows
    Start the Radian software
    You should have both a solid yellow (Data) and green (power) light on the USB adapter. If you don't have the solid yellow then the USB is not working.
     
  8. Mario de Roos

    Mario de Roos Member

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    Andy,

    You have some good points.

    The ones that use a driver are,

    AVRISP MKII programer
    MGM Compro programer
    Castle Link (forgot that one)
    MK programer (don't have it anymore but worked ok)
    Cruis FC programer (forgot that one also)
    Graupner USB interface
    Jeti USB adapter

    I have only one (20 Euro costing) USB cable with an micro connector especially bought for the Radian's.

    One more thing, on the Radian USB programer I see one not to bright and very quick (orange or green) flash from a small led next to the continues burning green led when I push the read or connect button.

    Mario



     
  9. Mario de Roos

    Mario de Roos Member

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    Gary,

    I already checked that, in the divice manager I see the adapter popping up under Ports (COM & LPT) when I connect the programer and also leave when I disconnect the programer.
    See also the picture on post,
    http://forum.freeflysystems.com/ind...t-know-about-the-radian.221/page-7#post-12421

    As I also posted in the reply to Andy,
    on the Radian USB programer I see one not to bright and very quick (orange or green) flash from a small led next to the continues burning green led when I push the read or connect button.


    Mario


     
  10. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Presuming all three Radians do the same thing, then it sounds pretty much as you say, Mario: The Radian USB adapter may need to be replaced -- it seems more likely that that would have failed than all three Radians.

    Andy.
     
  11. Ramesh Tahlan

    Ramesh Tahlan Member

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    Hi
    yesterday while test flying my mcopter
    i noticed that at times i see a kind of shiver go through the whole machine
    and it happened a couple of times
    and i noticed it only when i was preety close to it... may be 6 feet away
    so it looks like there would be a vibration problem
    which when coming from multiple motors/props would once in a while synchronise and aggravate the problem giving a kind of shake or shiver for a second or two to the whole machine
    so i got home
    removed all props
    and did the vibration test
    images r attached below
    but can someone guide me where to compare my data
    so i know which motor needs balancing if a particular data is beyond a limit
    after that i can start to balance that motor
    and then repeat the test with props one at a time
    i guess there is no escaping this process as i did see a shiver on the machine. and it was noticable.
    Ramesh
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Ramesh Tahlan

    Ramesh Tahlan Member

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    hi guys
    while i am waiting for some comment on my images of vibration data of all 6 motors
    i though i would post two pics on how i mounted the iPhone4
    Also i went ahead to see how the graphs would look like if i did try balancing one motor
    so i have attached another image to show the size of sticker i am putting for balancing
    the result was that the vibrations got a lot worse
    wow
    did not know a small sicker like that would cause soooo much of vibration
    so i placed the sticker in 4 locations which were 90 deg to each other
    and in all 4 locations the vibrations were worse than the images i put up earlier
    so i am putting up the 4 vibration images with the sticker in 4 diff locations
    So would it be right for me to think that my motors r well balanced as they have come .
    I am now going to do the vibration tests with props on.
    the props have been balanced off course.
    Ramesh
     

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  13. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Hi Ramesh:
    The hard thing about this is to be sure that the "shiver" is indeed what you think it is.
    Presuming you have a Navi Control board and GPS, do you have a GPX file you could upload?
    Also, did you happen to have any video from an onboard camera so that we can get some idea of the frequency of the "shiver."

    It might be caused, as you suspect, by a beat frequency between the motors as they adjust their speed to maintain stable flight -- analyzing individual motors will not show you this because a beat frequency is caused by the interaction of two or more motors.

    In your second posting, I can see part of the boom at the top of the first image -- what are the booms made of, please? They appear to be square in cross section.

    So, the immediate problem is try and determine whether the "shiver" you are seeing is the result of motor/prop vibration interaction or not. I suspect it is, but that it is does not happen (from what you say) at all motor speeds -- and that is the hall-mark of a beat frequency.

    Thanks
    Andy.
     
  14. Mario de Roos

    Mario de Roos Member

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    Hi Andy and Gary,

    Thank you guy's for the support :)

    I wil send an email to kopterworx about my problem, hoop this will be solved quickly.

    Greetings,

    Mario

     
  15. Ramesh Tahlan

    Ramesh Tahlan Member

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    Andy
    thanks for the inputs.
    the booms are Alluminium alloy, 15x15mm square tubes.
    totally agree, beat freq creating with what all combinations is a question damn diff to answer.
    but it may be a problem
    in the mean time i have just done a tests with 15in prop, i held the arm down with a 15kg bench vice... did a test with iphone strapped to the arm first and then placed it on the central body
    ramesh
     

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  16. Ramesh Tahlan

    Ramesh Tahlan Member

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    Andy
    just to be sure my 15in funny looking props were not the problem
    i did one more test with 12in carbon props
    the vibrations were worse at the arm and at the body
    ramesh
     

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  17. Ramesh Tahlan

    Ramesh Tahlan Member

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    Andy
    i also did two things yesterday at the flying field
    took a video with my Canon 7D mounted with 4 Cinestar dampers between the cam mount and Mcopter body and also the dampers between the camera and cam body.
    then did another video with the dampers between the cam and the body removed,,,, it had only the 4 CineStar dampers in place
    I am just editing the two videos, and will put up the link here shortly
    but in respect to my first video i put up when cam mount was hard mounted to mcopter and had dampers between cam and cam mount only,,, the winds yesterday were far greater...
    just doing the editing of the two videos and will be ready soon
    Ramesh
     
  18. Mario de Roos

    Mario de Roos Member

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    Kopterworx is shipping out a new USB adapter today :)

    Hoop that it comes with the mico USB cable though :rolleyes:
     
  19. Mario de Roos

    Mario de Roos Member

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    Ramesh,

    Maybe this helps,

    Btw, don't use a magnet prop balanser, buy a Du-Bro with the big wheels,
    its the only consistent prop balanser that I know of;)





     
  20. Ramesh Tahlan

    Ramesh Tahlan Member

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    Mario
    many thanks
    i have a magnetic balancer... so props r balanced
    tried balancing motor.... it got worse.. .so they seem to be good
    Ramesh
     

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