Single Operator and Video Monitor

Discussion in 'MōVI M5' started by Nicolas Teeuwen, Aug 15, 2014.

  1. Nicolas Teeuwen

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    A common issue I have, as a single operator of the Movi, is with being able to easily see the Small HD DP4 monitor I have attached to the handle bars. While the Movi may be in front of its easy to see, but the minute I have to raise the Movi up above my head to get a shot, or lower it to the ground, or tilt it at an angle the LCD becomes hard to see, if visible at all. This is further made difficult when a shade is on it outside.

    What I would like is an easy way to keep the LCD in front of my face while being able to maneuver the Movi in any direction or orientation I need. This would also be important for being able to maintain focus as well as see the framing.

    One option I came across is the wearable LCD screens but the problem is you won't be able to safely move now as you won't be able to actually look with your eyes.

    Anyone have thoughts about how to keep the monitor in front of me, independent of the Movi handle bar orientation?
     
  2. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Zeiss Cinemizer's are what you want. You wee see over the top of them. Lots of us use them for copters for exactly the reasons you mention. The total immersion glasses like the Fat Sharks don't fit the bill. Do a search on Cinemizer here on the forum.
     
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  3. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Actually, I find it much better if you can avoid weeing over the top of them. It stops them shorting out because of the conductive fluid. ;) ;)

    Andy.
     
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  4. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Ok so I can't type and drive. Actually this is accurate for wiz kids or those that have quadro beanies...
     
  5. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

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  6. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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  7. Holger Göhr

    Holger Göhr New Member

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  8. Nicolas Teeuwen

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    So you can see thru the Cinemizers and at the same time actually see where I would be walking? I saw those glasses but the problem is it covered both eyes and I was concerned I couldn't walk/maneuver my environment while also wearing the glasses. I also usually rely on the Small HD DP4 focus features to help pull focus.
     
  9. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Nicholas no you look over the top of them. Instead of tight up against your face you let them slide a bit down your nose. I can see over the top of them and glancing down can still see my Futaba TX. The quality of the image is outstanding. Nice and bright. Andy Johnson-Laird also uses them with glasses. He has commented in the past it's the only type that work with glasses.

    But if you are walking, trying to pull focus, aim, fire you may be approaching sensory overload :cool:
     
  10. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    I have the Cinemizer's focused at infinity, so that I can look down at the Cinemizer screens and look up at the real world without having to refocus my eyes. As Gary said, flying, framing, and focusing.....not many spare brain cycles for walking...

    Andy.
     
  11. Nicolas Teeuwen

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    Right. One of them may suffer a bit while walking. In this case I might not be focusing while walking. Being able to easily adjust any of the things at any time though is going to be helpful. I might not pull focus until I stop moving, or may ignore framing during a tricky move.

    Currently I have been ignoring both framing and focusing relying on guess work about the camera orientation and hoping infinity focus or where I have it set will be enough.

    I am also fortunate enough to be able to do multiple things at once, especially if some of those things I do without any thought. I'll be ordering the Cinemizer's as it seems this is way better then having a monitor on my Movi and it will also reduce the weight on the arms.
     
  12. Nicolas Teeuwen

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    I just finally received my Cinemizer glasses and I am rather disappointed.

    1. It doesn't seem to handle some HDMI sources, specifically coming from a PC. Its compatibility leaves something to be desired.
    2. I can very often see a blue ghosting effect.
    3. With eyes like mine, in which my left eye has some issues, I am almost exclusively seeing from the right eye.
    4. Compared to a DP4, its not as sharp, offers none of the features that the DP4 does.

    Looking at the price tag I feel like I could have bought a DP4 with the EVF for the same price. The problem of course is mounting the DP4 such that I would be able to look through it with one eye.

    I did try with and without my glasses but its definitely better with my glasses regardless of the adjustments. I am able to easily walk around and see where I am going and look through the view finder.

    Overall, if they were much cheaper this would feel like an ok solution but for the price tag its feeling a bit steep. I am not liking the current solution of a Movi mounted Monitor because more often then not I cannot see the monitor due to the angle of the Movi. It would very much limit my Movi movement if I tried to keep it such that I could always see through the screen.

    Not sure what I am going to do yet. I may return the Cinemizers. I have yet to try them out with the actual Movi to see what I think. I have done my initial testing with just a camera hand held.
     
  13. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Hi Nicolas:
    Sorry that you're disappointed with the Cinemizers.

    Just some thoughts (referring to your numbered items):

    1. HDMI: Yeah, not all HDMI is created equal, but I've used mine with quite a few different sources (ranging from cameras, even an iPhone) and not had problems. Can you provide more details on the PC and video adapter so other forum members can benefit from your experience, please?

    2. I found that wearing a wide-brimmed hat (Canadian-made, Tilley) reduces the ghosting. I think it's light bouncing back and forth between all the optical surfaces that's doing it, but you may find you can improve it a bit with adjusting brightness and contrast as well.

    3. Err....not quite sure what do do with your right-eye dominance. :)

    4. You're right. The Cinemizers are a very different approach from the DP4.

    Please do post again once you've used them with the MōVI -- I'm sure other forum members (other than me, that is) will be interested.

    Andy.
     
  14. Nicolas Teeuwen

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    1.) I was able to get one PC running Windows 8 with a AMD card to spit out 720 p but it would not handle 1080p. I also tried with a Surface Pro 2 using an Mini-Display Port to HDMI adapter and could not get anything. You would end up with the screen going dark and even the "green text from the unit" would disappear. I was able to use it just fine with a Black Magic HDMI output card and with the cameras.

    I will hopefully have a chance to try them with the Movi tonight. I did try them with jsut a bare camera and I was able to walk around just fine. You can easily see below for your feet and above for your surroundings. I didn't feel like it would be an issue at all.

    I also tried hooking a Loupe up to one of my cameras and walked around with it up against my eye. I was able to still walk around rather easily though in this case you either have the choice of leaving the left eye open to see your surroundings or not. It served as peripheral view.

    I am now considering 2 options

    1. Returning the Cinemizers and getting the EVF for my DP4. The issue here is what to do to keep it on my right eye. I will need to rig up something to either a helmet or perhaps a hat that would allow the DP4 to stay on my right eye and preferably easily swing out of the way. No idea yet what I am going to do here.

    2. Just use the Cinemizers as they are. Around the house tests I was able to get focus the results seemed to work well. It is light weight and has the convenience factor.

    Having used just a loup on the back of my camera it is such a HUGE difference in screen size and clarity though over the cinemizers so I can only imagine how much better it will be with the DP4 and the loupe. I am tempted to order the loupe and see what I can rig up before returning the cinemizers. May have to try the cinemizers in a real situation to see what I think but overall I am rather disappointed with them. They feel more like the cheap low end monitor I purchased years ago that was useless.
     
  15. Nicolas Teeuwen

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    I have since ordered the loupe for the DP4. I am going to give it a try as I am likely going to prefer using it to using the Cinemizer glassees and the cost is cheaper (or equal if you don't have a DP4). I feel the screen space will be much bigger and a much better experience for getting focus etc...

    I have begun researching night vision goggle head mounts to see if I can find one that I can adapt to take the DP4, though the DP4 will have to be upside down so the 1/4-20 will be hanging from above.

    As soon as I get some results in I will come back here to share.
     
  16. Nicolas Teeuwen

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    Update: So I got the Small HD VF4 and i find even it is a bit hard to see for the corners. Wasn't completely happy with that part but its a definite improvement in visuals over the Cinemizer in terms of monitor features, quality and size. Definitely easier to focus with it.

    The question though is how to mount that to my eye with no hands. It is rather heavy. My first attempt was to find a way to mount it to a helmet but that will not work. It will put way too much weight on the head and you'll likely end up with a headache if having to do it for any lengthy period of time.

    I was about to give up and settle for the Cinemizer when I realized I had an old piece of equipment that can save the day. I purchased one of these http://www.amazon.com/CowboyStudio-Shoulder-Support-Camcorder-Camera/dp/B0036NMQ7S way back as a really cheap shoulder mount for my camera. Only used it a few times and have had it sitting on the shelf. Turns out its perfect for mounting the Small HD DP4 on my shoulder without needing hands. I can mount it with the VF4 close up to my eye, or easy swing it back so I can see it with the VF4 off.

    Advantages of this setup:
    • Much cheaper
    • Can have the display in front of you for better viewing of your surrounds or right up to your eye
    • Bigger display with false color, sharpening and other such modes that the Small HD monitors offer
    Disadvantages
    • Weighs more. I could still easily wear this for a few hours with out a real issue. It weighs the same as any camera you might have on your shoulder for any lengthy period of time.
    • Bulkier then the glasses
    • Takes up more space around you.
    I was testing out what it would be like to use the Movi in a car. I had someone else driving. I found out some interesting things in this space. I had used the Cinemizer glasses to test them out some more. In this setup, the space was extremely limited and there was generally no room the setup above at all but then there was generally no room for much of anything. I'll probably post a separate post about the interesting challenges of using a Movi in such a tight spot. Generally I don't find myself in such cramped space that having the Cinemizer glasses over the Small HD setup will be advantageous. If I really need to i can always put the monitor back on the Movi handle bars.
     
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