Should I buy a used Cinestar 8?

Discussion in 'Cinestar 8' started by Arthur Raham, Jan 3, 2016.

  1. Arthur Raham

    Arthur Raham New Member

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    Been flying the P2 to get into the business and was looking at upgrading to a medium type of UAV like the Inspire Pro and then eventually a heavy lift but I have a chance of getting a used Cinestar (2 axis gimbal, RTF minus batts and a controller) Price is $2K($7K invested). Is this older technology still viable for this price? Anything I should be aware of that might turn into a problem later? TIA
     
  2. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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  3. Arthur Raham

    Arthur Raham New Member

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  4. Shaun Stanton

    Shaun Stanton Active Member

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    It depends on what kind of Cinestar 8 you get. If you get a 6S battery capable Heavylifter with 500mm or 550 mm booms with heavylift motors like Tiger 4014 or 4012 motors or KDE it is an ok price. Or a Cinestar 8 X8 like mine with heavylift motors it maybe a decent deal.

    If you get a legacy Cinestar 8 with the old 4S battery setup on the Mikrokkopter 2.0 it will be a goddamn headache. Especially if the bird has the servo/belt driven gimbal, which I imagine it does will be you're other headache. The servo gimbal was a piece of crap. It did its job back in the day, but it was a constant battle of determining which gain settings to have it at it was quirky. Sometimes doing stupid sht like resetting itself in flight, and completely destroying a shot. Even if you spent hours, I mean HOURS!:mad: you would at best get mild shaky footage and bobbling unless every damn belt was at the right tightness and you were flying on a extremely calm day. You can look at thousands of posts on the radian gimbal on here and see just a ton of frustration. We had always do things like add spacers an other tricks to make it fit certain cameras like Lumix GH series.

    If I had a choice with an Inspire Pro or getting my first legacy 4S Cinestar 8. No question, I would go with the Inspire. I have been able to do more work with an Inspire 1 and its first gen X3 camera with confidence, the I ever did with my old CS8. Now that the Inspire Pro has the X5 camera and soon the X5R, that system is going to my mainstay unless I absolutely need to fly a RED, or a Alexa Mini or a Black Magic. Then I will either strap my Ronin on, or rent an M10. On set the only raw camera I have had to fly has been a Blackmagic 4K. Most of the time I have been flying a Lumix GH4. Lately I have flown mostly Inspires on set and most DP's have been fine with that footage with the exception of some purists.
     
  5. Gavin Morrisson

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    I agree with Shaun. I've been flying an Inspire 1 and it's incredible. While there are little things here and there, the thing is brilliant overall. The quality is incredible. The system is quite well thought out and I'm sure the next few versions will just be better and better.
     
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  6. Gavin Morrisson

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    Hi Shaun,

    What's the best route to get a 333? Did you get a lawyer? Were you already a certified pilot?

    I'm not certified yet, but am looking at it.
     
  7. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    You don't need to be a certified pilot to get a Section 333 exemption -- but the exemption will require that the pilot in command have a pilot's certificate.

    The major routes to getting a Section 333 exemption appear to be:

    1. Search on regulations.gov and find the kind of exemption petitions that others have submitted then adapt what you find to your situation and submit your own petition.

    2. Hire a lawyer to do step 1.

    Andy
     
  8. Gavin Morrisson

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    Hi Andy,

    Thanks for the reply.

    Ha. Yes...lawyer.

    This makes sense.

    Do you have any information on the "5 mile radius" rule of not flying around airports?

    The FAA states "Don't fly within 5 miles of an airport unless you contact the airport and control tower before flying."

    To me this means that it is allowed as long as I let the airport know. When I called my local airport (a tiny little place with no control tower) the operator said that he had been instructed to just say NO to any and all drone pilots. Hmmm....

    Best,
    Gavin
     
  9. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    That's precisely what it means. You don't even have to ask for permission -- you simply tell the tower (or the FBO if there is no tower) that you're going to be flying, that you'll remain below 400 ft AGL -- and that, as a courtesy, you will tell them when you're done.

    Andy.
     
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  10. MIke Magee

    MIke Magee Active Member

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    Hmmmm... indeed. As far as I know, the rule is that we have to inform, not request permission. I also know that local law enforcement as well as airport ops of all sizes have been aggressively briefed and counseled by the FAA.

    As an example, one remote place that we frequently flight test is (on a chart) 5.something away from an airport. Local law approached us and collected our information (in a respectful and friendly manner).

    I told them that we were under 100 ft, and 5.something away from the airport. The officer replied - "No sir, you are currently 4.62 miles away..". I don't suspect he was guessing, and subsequent research by me was about 4.8.

    We should probably start a thread sharing any interactions and experiences with operators and local law so that we can understand what they are hearing and thinking.

    -m


     
  11. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Mike: Are distances not measured from the center of the airport (usually where the VOR is)?

    Andy.
     
  12. MIke Magee

    MIke Magee Active Member

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    Yes, AFA I understand Andy. My point however, was how aware local law was of various distances throughout the town from kbvy. They have been briefed in detail.

     
  13. Gavin Morrisson

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    Hi Mike,

    Wow.

    Thanks for this!

    The whole thing is really an interesting, evolving subject.

    And nothing came out of the inquiry?

    The beach I like to fly at is about 3.5 miles from a TINY airport that has mostly ultralights flying out of it.

    Do you have a good way to see the birdseye distance from locations? I'm only using Google Maps...which obviously isn't accurate as the crow flies...

    Best,
    Gavin
     
  14. Gavin Morrisson

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    This is awesome.
     
  15. MIke Magee

    MIke Magee Active Member

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    Actually, there is a little known "As the crow flies" linear distance feature in google maps.

    Select a location (eg: an airport) and right click on it.
    step1.jpg

    Using the Measure Distance selection, you can click anywhere on the map (and move it around to get some context to give you what you want. In the example below, I slid it to a 4 mile point.


    step2.jpg
     
  16. Gavin Morrisson

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    Wow.

    This is GREAT.

    Thank you for this.

    Arthur Raham (creator of this thread) here's a reason to go with Freefly. The people on the forums make logical statements...
     
  17. Shaun Stanton

    Shaun Stanton Active Member

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    Let me help clear up some confusion on this matter. If you are flying under 336 or the 91.57a hobby rules, you only need to notify the airport manager or control tower, if applicable your UAS activity. If you are flying under 333 the distances are different depending on what type of airport is is. The distances are as follows per the blanket COA that comes with your 333. All airports with a tower you have to be outside 5 miles. A non towered airport that has an instrument approach procedure or IAP the distance is 3 miles. If it is a non towered airport that is VFR ops only in Class G airspace you need 2 miles. This only applies to public use airports. So you are not compelled to notify farmer Green Jeans if he has a private strip.

    Here is the irony. The recreational flyer has 5 miles for all airports. You do not need permision. You need to inform the proper airport authority that you are doing it.

    The 333 holders actually have a much more involved process. You have to get a special COA to operate inside the prescribed distances. This involves requesting one through the AFS-80 office, the UAS guys in DC. Then they alert the regional FAA office, who interns notifies that propper airport authority and gets a letter of understanding. Then the AFS-80 office decides to grant the special COA. 333 technically cant just get permission from the tower. They need to have the special COA.
     
  18. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Yes, we do make logical statements.
    I am English. All Englishmen are liars.
    The statement is logical but cannot be true. Or can it?

    (Ok, so I have dual English/US citizenship. That could be the cause?)
    Andy. :)
     
  19. MIke Magee

    MIke Magee Active Member

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    Thanks Sean. What has your experience been getting an LOU for a special COA? How long does it take? In the Northeast, I'm going to need it. I've heard that there are some written and spoken Air Traffic Policies that are being used by the local offices. I'm expecting our 333 (yes, with closed set) in early February and am very interested in sucking up ( I mean establishing an open and cooperative relationship) with our FSDO.

    -m
     
  20. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    And the measurement of 5 Nautical Miles (not statute miles which would be 5 x 1.15 = 5.75 sm) is from the published ARP which is the Airport Reference Point. That may or may not be the same as a VOR on the field. Don't you just love regulations. Easy to understand why there may be a test and the requirement for some type of pilots license.

    This is typical language, pulled from a 333 exemption dated 1/12/16:

    The UA may not operate within 5 nautical miles of an airport reference point (ARP) as denoted in the current FAA Airport/Facility Directory (AFD) or for airports not denoted with an ARP, the center of the airport symbol as denoted on the current FAA-published aeronautical chart, unless a letter of agreement with that airport’s management is obtained or otherwise permitted by a COA issued to the exemption holder. The letter of agreement with the airport management must be made available to the Administrator or any law enforcement official upon request.

    The easiest answer for an airport manager is "No". Note that it says the airport management OR a COA. So calling up the local FBO (Fixed Base Operator) asking permission at even a small airport may not be ok since they may not be the recognized management of the airport. Example for me would be the airport in Boulder, CO. The 'management' is the city of Boulder. I think they still have a designated manager but it's been awhile since I've been there, back in the days when I flew gliders.

    Easy resource for finding out the management of an airport is at www.airnav.com. It will generally be up to date with the 'owner' and contact information as supplied by the FAA.
     

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