Problem with PAN moving at speeds above 20kmh : M10 MR /ALTA

Discussion in 'MōVI M10' started by Vincent Delmont, Dec 17, 2015.

  1. Vincent Delmont

    Vincent Delmont New Member

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    Hy,
    We’ve got ALTA and 2 MOVI M10.
    We working with RED EPIC, Alexa mini in MOVI M10 MR in airbone mode.
    We have got T14SG and R6208SB FUTABA in SBUS mode to control MOVI M10 MR.

    After a lot of tests, we have all the time the same problem :
    We have a bounce or loss control if the drone trajectory exceeds 20km/h, a PAN rotation control from 90° backward rotation and on all the distances.

    You can see the video (password : movi) : ( at 5 seconds and 13 seconds)
    We tried a lot of tests to resolve this problem :
    1 Balancing : with differents payload the balancing is good ( under 3% sollicitations motors for all axis).
    2 Changing parameters on MOVI configurator : stiffness, hold strength, giro filters, output filters, remote rate scale and Heading assist in several values .
    3 CEM : we moved receptor R6208SB on the rear gear and switch off a video transmitter.
    4 Verifying charge : there is 3 green LED on the MOVI between begin tests.

    Our Settings standard for an RED EPIC configuration (with auto tunning) :
    PAN STIFFNESS : 115 (same problem with 150 to 30) over we’ve got oscillations
    ROLL STIFFNESS : 43 ( same problem with 65 to 20) over we’ve got oscillations
    TILT STIFNESS : 20 ( same problem with 65 to 20) over we’ve got oscillations
    AUTOTUNE : 50%

    MODE : AIRBONE
    RADIO TYPE : SBUS
    REMOTE RATE SCALE : 100

    PAN HOLD STRENGTH SETTINGS : 8 (same problem with 3 to 15)
    ROLL HOLD STRENGTH SETTINGS : 8 (same problem with 3 to 15)
    TILT HOLD STRENGTH SETTINGS : 8 (same problem with 3 to 15)

    GYRO FILTER : 5 (same problem with 1 to 10)
    OUTPUT FILTER : 5 (same problem with 1 to 10)

    HEADING ASSIST : GPS (same problem with OFF, COMPAS)
    We’ve got the same problem with TWO MOVI M10 under ALTA, GRYPHON and with all configurations mounting ( RED, ALEXA and others payloads).

    Have you got an idea to help us ?
    Thanks a lot.
     
  2. Sam Fleishman

    Sam Fleishman Member

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    We have the same issues...we are using red dragon on m15 with stiffness settings on pan roll tilt closer to 230 170 120 I believe. Gyro output at 3 and 3 and pan roll tilt hold at 20 25 and 25. Heading assist gps. Our gimbal breaks loose at faster speeds, more like 30mph. Can @tabbfirchau or someone else at Freefly please comment?!?! This has been an issue for people using this setup for a while.
     
  3. James Adkins

    James Adkins Member

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    To get speeds above 35mph I had to fabricate a ball enclosure around the camera/gimbal. In a straight line we have reached speeds of up to 80mph with this arrangement and our Red Dragon on our large single rotor camera rigs. The camera will still roll off in a high "G" banking turn however. The Red camera with lens does not have a very aerodynamic form factor.
     
  4. Sam Fleishman

    Sam Fleishman Member

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    Can you post pictures of your set up? Thanks.
     
  5. James Adkins

    James Adkins Member

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  6. James Adkins

    James Adkins Member

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    Sorry this is the only pic I had on my phone.
     
  7. Michael Elsegood

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    I have experienced the same on M15 with Alexa Mini.

    It seems to happen when camera is pointed backward of 90deg.

    ie - The pan bar is pointing in the same direction the copter is flying in. I've put it down to aerodynamics wanting to "swing" the pan bar back around to be the on the trailing side of the copter. Im no physicist, but I would expect the pan motor when camera facing forward would have a fair bit less 'load' on it than when it is on the leading side of the copter...
     
  8. James Adkins

    James Adkins Member

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    You're not wrong
     
  9. Vincent Delmont

    Vincent Delmont New Member

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    Thanks for reply.
    Effectively, it's an aerodynamic problem think by the support freely, there is a connex, sometimes a HDMI converter and scratches on the rear landing leg. may be that the motor pan can not hold in this situation.
    We will remove all the pieces on the leg and we will try a new test. Support freely recommend to use the new aero landing gear to reduce wind resistance.
     
  10. Romand Walter

    Romand Walter New Member

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    Same problem as you with m10 and m15, BUT not with the M5.
    We sent the M15 back, they found a problem on the pan motor and 700$ later still the same...
     
  11. Angus Benson-Blair

    Angus Benson-Blair Active Member

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    Its all about aerodynamics. If you think that we spend a good age getting good at balancing the system for our camera for it work properly, think what happens as airspeed increases. Now the system becomes unbalanced as such, not due to gravity but due to the camera kit exerting different forces due to the wind resistance. There comes a point where the wind resistance just gets too much for the Movi to handle.
     
  12. James Adkins

    James Adkins Member

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    Here is a little better photo of the hamster ball for our Red Dragon.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Which part of the world do you live in, James? In the Pacific NW, the hamsters are real small, cute, things.

    Joking apart, where did you get the hamster ball from. (Please don't tell me: "a hamster!")
    Andy.
     
  14. James Adkins

    James Adkins Member

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    That's just what the wife called it after I made it. I vacuum formed it from 2mm thick acrylic sheet last winter.
     
  15. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Nice idea to make it. You might find there's a market from other forum members if you had the inclination to make some more.

    Still not sure about the hamster part, though. :rolleyes:

    Andy.
     
  16. Jason Toth

    Jason Toth Active Member

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    How the heck do you balance the ball after the gimbals been balanced?
     
  17. Mehmet Dinçer

    Mehmet Dinçer New Member

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    Hey Vincent, did you solve your problem?
     

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