Power draw issue

Discussion in 'MōVI Pro' started by Josh Park, Dec 11, 2016.

  1. Josh Park

    Josh Park Member

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    Hello, on my first job wth Movi Pro and already experiencing issues.

    I noticed Movi Pro can't handle two accessories plus camera battery power.

    I'm working with
    - red epic dragon
    - Bartech digital with Fstop wireless
    - teradek bolt 3000

    I plugged the red power cable to the 12-14 cam port, plugged Bartech to its next 12v out, and teradek transmitter on top 12v right by the LCD screen unit.

    I noticed the power for camera stayed on but power for either Bartech or teradek stayed. When one of the other unit was unplugged, the power on either one plugged in stayed. Only makes me think Movi Pro isn't really designed to pull this much power.

    Is this a known issue or is there something I'm missing?
     
  2. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Josh send a question to support@freeflysystems.com. I don't see anything in the manual about total power draw specs for the distribution system. Might simply be that there is a limit on amps being drawn.
     
  3. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    Hi Josh, I've emailed with Chris @ support about it, and it's my understanding they're looking at it. Not sure what adjustments they can make from a Firmware perspective, but I'm hopeful they can raise the current draw on those ports. The gimbal's only just been released, so I'm sure there are lots of firmware improvements they're planning.

    Gary, the Movi Pro specs show 2 amps per accessory DTap, and 6 amps for Camera. It's not listed in the manual, but on the Movi Product page on the website. My Tomahawk and Bartech can't get enough power on the Spine DTap, but the Tomahawk can work on the Tilt Stage DTap. If the Movi batteries are fresh and fully charged, I can get enough juice for the Bartech on the Tilt Stage 2A, but once they drain a bit, no dice.

    To be fair, the Bartech claims it needs 3 amps peak, but I understand it draws nominal power (.075A, according to the PLC manual) when not driving the motor, so it's a bit of a mystery to me why it won't work even with the motor disconnected. Maybe there's another issue going on?

    I know a few other Movi ops using their M15 Lipos to power their Focus receivers, but another option is to use V-mounts for cameras and the 6A Cam output for Bartech, and the 2A Tilt Stage output for Tomahawk. I'm hoping to do more testing this week with different cameras to see what might work best and what cables I need to have made.

    I think if I were an Aerial operator, I'd be using the Movi controller for Focus and Iris with the built-in receiver, but for on-set work, the AC's need a proper hand unit.

    The power situation isn't a deal breaker for me. The new Movi Pro is a nice upgrade from the M15 in many ways, and I had it on set all weekend and it was really nice to power up and tune so quickly, and the Mimic and the app worked really well. I'm looking forward to the firmware updates to come. Seems like a lot of cool options on the horizon for Movi Pro.
     
  4. Rob Ruscher

    Rob Ruscher Member

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    On the Facebook live videos, weren't they powering a red, wireless monitor and a wireless follow focus? I'm guessing it depends on the accessories that can be all powered at the same time? Hoping my setup will work
     
  5. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    As far as I remember, Tabb always did the Focus motors through the Movi's built-in Tilt Stage FIZ ports, and used the Movi Controller for focus control. He never demoed a focus receiver.

    I also remember he plugged the Teradek into the Tilt Stage unit, not the Spine\GCU, because he typically mounted it inside the cage on a Pop-N-Lock.
     
  6. Ben Ruffell

    Ben Ruffell Active Member

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    For those of us who held back being an early adopter on the Pro, this is a very interesting thread. Please, keep us posted!

    Running a top monitor and a Paralinx up high is critical for us and achieving long range wireless video. (Down low in the cage just does not work on a full size busy set in our experience).

    Likewise, being able to power an Alexa Mini with C-Motion Motors or a Dragon with an independent FIZ all powered and drawing at once is the basic professional requirement.

    I guess if there are design limits, now is the opportunity for FreeFly to look into a redesign...
     
  7. Andre Pieter Henning

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    Anybody know if it can power a Cinegears Extreme Torque motor?
     
  8. Josh Park

    Josh Park Member

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    So far, after sending out messages + leaving voice mails at Freefly, no answer yet.

    This is a big bummer for me but it's workable. I know Bartech can't be pulling that much power, since I was able to power both Fstop transmitter + motor + run/stop module power from using a 8v 2amp NPF-960 battery. Movi Pro powered the Movi Pro plus TERADEK bolt 3000 transmitter.

    Also, I'm sure it's a firmware issue, but the GPU display module displays battery levels of two Movi pro batteries weird. A level and B level switch back and forth rapidly. It happens when the battery level drops below 50%. It's super confusing when I'm pushing the limits of the unit.

    My DJI FOCUS will be arriving later this week and I'll do a full text with it plus bolt 3K. But for now it's got a lot of weird software bugs that need to be squashed.
     
  9. Tabb Firchau

    Tabb Firchau Administrator
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    Quick update.

    1. The 2A D-Tap output was never intended to run external focus devices. These accy often draw quite a bit of peak current, and we cant support that draw on top of normal MoVI, camera, and accy power consumption.
    2. Wireless systems are USUALLY under 2A draw. We did run into an issue with the Paralinx and Teradek systems where the specific manner in which they started up tripped our short circuit protection. Shane came up with a firmware update to address this in MPro 1.1 release.
    If you are currently having an issue powering a Paralinx or Teradek wireless system, shoot us an email at support@freeflysystems.com and we will send you some beta FW to resolve the issue.

    Ben - you are making it less enjoyable to visit the Freefly Forum for me, which is a bummer......
     
  10. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Tabb, really appreciate the hard work and innovation you all are putting into things. That's awesome what you can fix with some firmware.

    I had the Pro out on set this week and was really impressed with how much easier the gimbal is to work with. It's super fast to boot, easy to adjust, and I especially like the ability to pause the motors at the gimbal without turning it off.

    Thanks for the update!
     
  11. Vin Guglielmina

    Vin Guglielmina New Member

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    We ran into major issues on set when we figured out our axis one receiver was starving for power and acted erratically. The tricky thing is you can power a weapon, teradek 600, axis 1 receiver, and Movi pro while you are sitting at home with fresh charged batteries but once youre jammin on set for a bit theres a nasty surprise.
    Im so pumped on the new movi pro, its certainly an upgrade, and I ( and my lower back) love the new top handle mounted on the ring.. and those feet for resting... amen brother.. but I'm so bummed I cant power my setup from movi batts. I'd jump on any wireless focus system that works, any ideas on a unit with a lower power draw? An entire system running on one type of battery is a dream worth chasing.

    In the mean time any ideas where to get the right "lemo to jst" for powering axis 1 with movi lipo?
     
  12. Bryan Edmonds

    Bryan Edmonds Chief MōVI Whisperer

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    I'd jump on any wireless focus system that works, any ideas on a unit with a lower power draw? An entire system running on one type of battery is a dream worth chasing.

    In the mean time any ideas where to get the right "lemo to jst" for powering axis 1 with movi lipo?
    • To power the AXIS 1 from an M5/M10/M15 battery, you can use this or a similar cable: https://goo.gl/TDkVpE
     
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  13. Vin Guglielmina

    Vin Guglielmina New Member

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    I love that idea, I really do love the idea of ditching the weight of a wireless receiver but I cant hand the movi controller to an ac, the ergonomics do not make sense for running around all day. In a car or chopper, on your lap, its the best. We just need a focus system that has a nice standard hand unit.
     
  14. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    Freefly's working on a Focus hand unit (and Iris and Zoom) that they want to build into the Mimic as an accessory. Tabb's posted videos on Instagram of the prototypes, and it's an awesome idea:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BNiSUi7gGwB/?taken-by=great.white.snark

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BOA4GUWAUau/?taken-by=great.white.snark

    My hope is that they'll talk with some real-world AC's who pull focus and get feedback on the design. I don't need to tell you how picky some AC's are about the Focus units that we hand them, and there really are some important design and feature considerations.

    But the expandability of this system is very intriguing!
     
  15. Tabb Firchau

    Tabb Firchau Administrator
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    Haha!

    They are only picky because they are trying to rent their Preston units back to production for a day rate....thus the only acceptable thing that could ever be used is the Preston (the one they get paid for ahem ahem)
     
  16. Vin Guglielmina

    Vin Guglielmina New Member

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    I certainly dont disagree that some ACs are out to rent their gear. Choices are good though. For comparison heres what we've been using with our trusty M15 for years and has served us well following athletes through mobs of cheering fans and media. Left hand cradles into the chest, right hand does the business. Small, lightweight, solid. IMG_9422.jpg
     
    #16 Vin Guglielmina, Dec 14, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
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  17. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    No kidding, Tabb. They gotta make some money on those $25k FIZ's! I have to convince them to slum it with my Bartech.

    Vin, you can still add a Lipo, or power the camera and\or accessories off V-mounts, like we did with the M15. It's not the end of the world. I think we may be expecting too much to power the Gimbal, Camera, Follow Focus, and Video Tx on a total of 85wH. Definitely don't want these things catching fire like Samsung phones or last Christmas' hoverboards. :)

    If you throw a LiPo in for just the Axis, you'd probably only need two or three batteries a day to run it. It does mess with my OCD, though -- trying to figure out a neat way to rig the battery and keep the cables pretty.

    I like your follow focus rig, BTW. I built something similar for my rig, with integrated monitor, Tomahawk receiver, and Focus unit, and I agree this is what AC's really need to follow along with the Movi.

    I'm testing several cameras tomorrow for configurations, balance and power. I also want to see if the Arri's built-in WCU4 system can work on the 6A DTap port along with the camera.

    Hoping I can get the Beta firmware update to test, too. It's quite a response, considering the Movi's only been delivering for a few weeks, and Freefly saw an issue with certain transmitters and worked to fix it so fast.
     
  18. Ben Ruffell

    Ben Ruffell Active Member

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    Hi Tabb,

    Sorry to bum you out.

    It's the reality of working on set.

    We are working on global release TVC's with award winning Directors and DP's.
    They expect solutions that are rock solid and work under pressure.
    If it's any comfort to you... we just did a Super Bowl spot this week... so, you can look forward to watching what your kit created in a few months time.

    It's great that there is a firmware solution for Paralinx and Tomahawk. (As you know, these are the standard solutions on big sets). Congratulations on that.

    You are very welcome to come down to New Zealand any time and spend some time on set with us. It's an open invitation to spend some time with us and the crews that we work with, and see how the kit is used.

    Our 1st AC's are not after kit rental on FIZ units.
    MoVI Control is not an option for the 1st AC. It is a controller for the Operator. (and it is very good for that... I often compare it to a full size Shotover Controller... it is that good).
    The camera of fashion currently is the Alexa Mini, and, as you know, it comes with a WCU-4. That is what the assistants use. It is supplied by the rental house.

    We have spent a bit of cash with Freefly, and have a small fleet of gear from you. It has been good for us, and that is why we contribute to this forum, in the hope that our investment continues to make money for us, and in the hope that with an open dialogue that the kit continues to improve so that it better meets our clients needs.
    If you would prefer, I will stop posting to the forum. (But, then, is it really a forum? Or is it a place for press releases? Personally, I believe that an open dialogue is healthy).

    Please, let me know if you ever want to visit. It's a pretty beautiful place here, with interesting work. It would be my pleasure to take you out to dinner after wrap, and discuss the day and the gear over a nice bottle of wine.
     
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  19. Jason Toth

    Jason Toth Active Member

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    Yup & they won't give it up. Prestons handsets are the only real FIZ that are used on set. If Freefly can make a handset that's comparable, you can force them to use it on a drone / moving vehical but in studio.... no way :)

    We sent a bunch of ideas to freefly last year, not sure if anything will come of it? For example the movi controller, need to make the stick on that thing much smaller and thinner &/or removable since operators have different stick preferences. Then make the FIZ able to be removed from the controller to pass on to an AC. We use the current controller with the Preston which kind of defeats the purpose. Range needs to be extended/change the frequency of 5.8 or something, on the drone in urban environments you're lucky to get 200 feet which is nothing on a drone. For the movie pro, since it's on 6S why can't all the ports support 10 amp draw? 6S batteries 15c can accommodate this, not sure why the movi pro batteries can't? On our M15's we are using one 6000 4s 25C battery to power everything w/o issue: Alexa/dragon, M15, tomahawk, Preston, hedens, semote, dragonlink for 20min.
     
  20. Benjamin Granet

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    I find the discussion about the 1st AC and which remote focus they want really out of topic.

    If an AC want a specific follow focus because it's the one he is used to and it's the one who will allow him to get the shoot right away when the DOP want to shoot at T1.3, he should have the right to use it and no manufacturer or gimbal operator should tell him to use something else. If you've ever worked as a 1st AC and been in a situation like this, you would definitely understand.

    It would be the same than having someone forcing you to use a Ronin because of any stupid reason.

    It's definitely a bummer to learn that the Movi Pro isn't able to power a remote focus trough it's Ptap and I think it's a big mistake from Freefly. It should have been something on their long list of feature to absolutely have.

    And maybe some AC are forcing to rent their remote focus but what I understand here is that Freefly is forcing us to buy their remote focus if we want to avoid to had another battery to the rig. Which one is worst, I don't know.

    Anyhow, the Movi Pro is a big step up and I'm gonna be glad to use it when I get it. If they are able to find a fix to that either trough firmware update or trough a hardware fix, I wouldn't even mind sending it back to them to get it modified.
     

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