Pot-Roast of Beginner's Questions

Discussion in 'CineStar FAQ - Tips and Tricks' started by Zach Beggs, Jun 2, 2013.

  1. Zach Beggs

    Zach Beggs Member

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    Hey guys, thanks in advance for reading this and answering my questions. I have just some general questions.

    Currently I am running a stock CS8 with a 3 axis, MX-20/DX8, 5.8 sting downlink, 4S QC 8-Amp batteries (not in parallel).

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    1) HEAT ISSUES: I want to use a 5DM3 + 24mm IS prime. With heat sinks and in ~90 degree Los Angeles weather, will I fry my MK BLs in a 3-4 minute flight (8amp battery)? I would hope to keep my temps under 110 Celsius at the most. Moderate hovering. What are your experiences? It will be slightly less than a 3lb load (not including the gimbal).

    2) UPGRADING MK PWR DISTRIBUTION: I'm looking at the FreeFly Motor Control Set: will this completely replace my MK power distribution board and my MK telemetry. Also, will I need to find and purchase a separate chip (an I2C I think it's called)? For a first-time builder, would you recommend flying with the MK board for a little while before upgrading the power distribution board? I plan to be flying the 5DM3 for a while -- no HL for a while as well.

    3) JST PLASTIC HOUSINGS/CUSTOM CABLES: Where are you guys getting your miniature 3-pin JST plastic housings? The small white one that plugs into the stinger as well as the bottom of the radians? What about the black rectangular JST housings? The ones that connect into the radians on the side. Where do you find those, do you make your own (i'm setting up my FPV wiring).

    4) 3-AXIS GIMBAL: I wanted to ask if I have my wiring correct.

    1200MAH QC to BEC/to RADIAN (tethered)/output tilt RADIAN to 5V regulator/to Stinger/to HDMI Converter​

    I was hoping to use the (custom QC iftron cable). Taking the top red and black wires, those go to my 5V regulator and receiver power. The yellow wire will go to the HDMI video lead, as well as (I think the orange is the power lead). This will correspond with the positive lead on the HDMI converter.​

    5) WIRING: can I wire my power lead to my passport and my power leads to my Fat Sharks on the same dean connector? My passport and my Fat sharks don't have a power-loop through, so I can't tether or daisy chain them. Will this work, soldering both leads for both on their correct sides of the dean connector?

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    Thanks for your answers!
    -Zach
     
  2. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    You're going to have to keep an eye on BL-Ctrl temps clear, Zach, but you should be able to get reasonable flights....hovering is really hard on the copter and the temps will climb quickly as there's not enough horizontal airflow.

    For a first time builder, I'd not recommend that you upgrade to the FF just yet -- wait until you can go with all FF equipment -- specifically the Synapse controller.

    That's a very good question. I think all I did was do a Google search for 3pin JST connectors and looked very carefully at the images to determine which were the correct ones.

    I'm not quite sure I fully grasp your wiring:
    1. The BEC should provide power to all the Radians by connecting the BEC to the first in the chaing.
    2. The Stinger can work directly off the LiPo.
    3. The HDMI needs +5v volts.

    If the Fatsharks and the Passport accept the same range of voltages, yes. Just use a Y-cable to connect them up.

    Hope this helps
    Andy.
     
  3. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Zach www.hansenhobbies.com has every type of connectors and tools you would need. Do buy the wire stripper and crimpers from either Hansen or QC. Will make your life much easier.
     
  4. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Thanks, Gary....I'd forgotten about Hansen.
    Andy.
     
  5. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    HI Zach. Thats a tall order!!! Your balance would have to be dead on and even then that might be pushing it. But then again you are running one battery (a lot of us run two for safety margin) I asked Quadrocopter about the heat sinks for the BL's and they said that they haven't found much of an improvement. There are a couple guys that installed custom cooling fans and claim they worked really well.
     
  6. Zach Beggs

    Zach Beggs Member

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    Andy - for my wiring I was thinking of taking the power from the last radian (the tilt radian) and regulating that power signal to a clean 5 volts (due to servo noise) and then from the stinger to the HDMI converter. Will that work?

    That's huge help Gary - Thanks!
     
  7. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Watch Chris Hansen how to do a servo connector in 3 seconds video. Ok maybe not 3 seconds but with the correct tool his you can put them together very quickly.
     
  8. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Zach: Typically a 5v regulation needs to have an input voltage greater than about 6.4 volts to regulate down to 5v (a so called diode drop of 1.4 volts). I'm not sure that all DC/DC regulators need this, but I'm not sure what you're suggesting would work.

    As an alternative you could try taking the DC power from the last Radian in the chain and looping the wiring through a ferrite ring several times (e.g. five or six) and see if that eliminates the noise. Unfortunately, you'd need to use an oscilloscope to see if that was effective in reducing the noise spikes. Dealing with noise is as much an art as it is a science... :(

    Andy.
     
  9. Zach Beggs

    Zach Beggs Member

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    Tall order as in expensive or high demand (5Dm3 + 24mm prime)?

    - I'm installing the heat sinks tomorrow (or Thursday). For 3-4 minute flights, i'll be limited in hovering... By the way have you tried the new ACC 2.2? :O

    I tested it out in the park today, held my controller to the side and pulled on one of the legs. SOLID. >:) Andy probably wouldn't have liked that, and it probably was really stupid to try, but the thing hovers like a champ! ​

    - What are the downsides to using the ACC for holding altitude? Other than flying at too steep of an angle (causing it to drop).

    - Do I really need to run my QCs in parallel? I've been taking really good care of them, telling them they look nice, tucking them in at night...
     
  10. Zach Beggs

    Zach Beggs Member

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    Andy: I'm basically setting up my 3-axis for the first time and wiring it together. So far I've been taking the power lead from the battery, to a BEC, through the radians and to the stinger. From there I was hoping to power the HDMI converter as well (through the stinger lead)

    I don't know if it'll work yet because I get a few more pieces I need in the mail in the next few days.... (isn't that how it always is -- just one more piece till I'm DONE... just one more piece till I'm... I'll never be done).
     
  11. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    The new ACC should be named the Lepage's Glue Gun: It just glues the bird against the sky -- well, at least in altitude!
    I do like it the AH a lot actually -- the camera ops I work with like long low passes with pull-ups and so the new AH really makes things a lot safer. Not sure about trying to yank a copter out of the sky though -- there's a real risk some of the sky would come with it, isn't there? ;)

    That said, when I'm at 14.4v I bring the bird home and, en route, drop out of AH so I get to fly all visual, all manual. I occasionally will even turn expo off if the wind is gusty so that I maintain currency in a fully manual bird just to experience what happens when all but the basic control technology has failed...

    Do a search on YouTube for "Children of the Magenta" to understand why. Great American Airlines training video for commercial airline pilots.

    Andy.
     
  12. Zach Beggs

    Zach Beggs Member

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    Haha Andy...

    I normally fly all manual but I flew on the new AH today and pretty aggressively... 40mph sharp turns, it is slick! Feels like i'm cheating... o_O

    Tip: Don't initiate the new AH while at the low end of your throttle stick. Immediately it registered that I wanted to decrease and set a new AH position, and at about 5ft it dropped quickly and bounced off the floor. Thank heavens for the bouncing wheels I attached :)

    By the way, didnt somewhere on the tutorial page (the MK page) they said something about never turning on AH while at "1,50 meters". Did they mean 1.5 meters?

    "The new position control will only work correct if you fly your copter (after each start) once over an altitude of 1,50 mtr."

    So take it to 10ft and drop it down to 5?
     
  13. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Yeah, when you disable AH you have to expect either the sudden descent or ascent....I'm always pleasantly surprised when the bird stays at the same height....

    Andy.
     
  14. Zach Beggs

    Zach Beggs Member

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    Yeah for disabling, be ready, but if you initiate while at the low end of the stick, hovering at 5 ft (my copter only has a 1lb load on it for testing so the stick is probably 15% out of 100). The AH will log your setpoint but also will decrease it immediately because the stick is not centered at 0.
     
  15. Zach Beggs

    Zach Beggs Member

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    Andy -

    Do you know the difference between these settings? Besides that you can poke at the helicopter better? I've been using Mittleres' setting, I like the resilience of the AH while hovering, I was just wondering if the default or how the Hartes settings compare.
    Settings


    Default-Setting

    • Altitude P = 20
    • Baro D = 40
    • ACC-Z = 30
    • Hoover variation = 1 (100%)
    Mittleres-Setting

    • Altitude P = 30
    • Baro D = 60
    • ACC-Z = 30
    • Hoover variation = 1 (100%)
    Hartes-Setting

    • Altitude P = 50
    • Baro D = 85
    • ACC-Z = 30
    • Hoover variation = 1 (100%)
     
  16. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Hi Zach:
    I'm afraid I don't know the differences-- I keep my avionics strictly at factory default except for the GPS gain at 85%.
    It seems like only the Altitude P and Baro D are at issue and I'd need to experiment with other settings.

    Andy.
     
  17. Zach Beggs

    Zach Beggs Member

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    Are you going to set your throttle stick back to spring loaded if you fly with the new AH? I've only flown a few batteries with AH control -- and I noticed that though the throttle is not nearly as sensitive as it is when in manual, throttle input around 0 plus or minus change the AH setpoint. I'm sure you've known this already but was curious if you spring load your throttle stick now
     
  18. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    I've never flown with a spring loaded throttle, Zach. It's just a personal preference, of course, but I chose to work on the basis that one day the AH will fail and I'll have to actually fly the bird by the "seat of my pants...." and the way I fly I need to be able to revert to a simple "stick and rudder" approach. Too many hours flying light aircraft (and more particularly self-launching sailplanes). :)

    Andy.
     
  19. Zach Beggs

    Zach Beggs Member

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    If AH does fail, what should I expect to happen. First time accidentally triggering Come Home was a joy! -.-
     
    Josh Lambeth likes this.
  20. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    I think there are probably only three AH failure modes:

    1. Altitude hold won't. :)
    2. It will head for the center of the Earth.
    3. It will head for the stratosphere.

    Failure mode 1 is probably the preferable one, but I don't have any data on the probabilities of these. Josh Lambeth was having Mode 3 failures, and there was a reported incident of a Mode 2 failure some months back on the forum.

    Andy.
     

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