Pilot coordinating directions with a camera operator

Discussion in 'Camera Operating' started by Andy Johnson-Laird, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. Edward Chegodaev

    Edward Chegodaev New Member

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    And still, welcome the best way for synchronization of collaboration of the operator and the pilot is an existence 2 sets of OSD, with compasses on each display (the pilot and the operator).
    Then won't be any: "hover over that white shed over there.... " or "Go left a bit.... ".
    There will be a sequence of simple teams: the course 250 degrees, speed is 40 km/h...
    Through 70 meters of flight a stop and a shift on 160 degrees, smooth roll in left, turn with a radius of 30 meters, a stop and soaring on a place with the set height...
    Then, flight back at the rate of 45 degrees, with a speed of 15-20 km/h.
    It is necessary, what during shooting with lens application the fixed focal length to make imitation "zoom plus", or "zoom minus"...
     
  2. Zach Beggs

    Zach Beggs Member

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    Do you guys notice the heli yawing slightly because of the pan axis servo? I'm using radians.
     
  3. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Zach:
    I've not seen any reports of that. If you suspend the copter above your bench, you will see a slight amount of "creep" -- but just a few degrees per minute. It sounds like you're seeing significantly more than that?

    Andy.
     
  4. Zach Beggs

    Zach Beggs Member

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    I'm not taking like 10 or 20 degrees of yaw, but I'll hover and watch the camera stop and initiate a pan and it'll be clear the copter is fighting with the pan servo. I'll get a couple degrees of yaw on the copter (5 at most I believe).

    I was jsut wondering if that is normal. It could be the vibration dampeners.

    Josh L. recommended red-black alternating rubber bands for the vibration dampeners.

    I'm using a 5DM3 and a 24mm IS lens.

    Stock CS8.
     
  5. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    That almost sounds like it's electromechnical -- with the copter on the ground, can you manually rotate the booms without problems (other than the screw attaching the gimbal to the star plate fouling on the top of the servo pulley (because the O-rings are not extended by the weight of the gimbal).

    Andy.
     
  6. Zach Beggs

    Zach Beggs Member

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    Yeah, the booms rotate fine. The pulley O ring is slightly tight too. There's not a lot of slack either.
     
  7. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Any chance you could shoot a video of what you're seeing -- it's hard to visualize what you're describing....

    Andy.
     
  8. Zach Beggs

    Zach Beggs Member

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    I'll shoot you a video tomorrow :)
     
  9. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    I just realized that, if you post it on Vimeo, I'm out of luck as the scarcity of bandwidth where I am means I won't get to see it. On the other hand I might get to see it if you post on YouTube.

    Andy.
     
  10. Zach Beggs

    Zach Beggs Member

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    You won't get the beautiful "strobe light/flicker effect" though :(
     
  11. Christian Onyando

    Christian Onyando New Member

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    Im very new to multirotors, Im just finishing up my first build. Interesting topic here...I have some thoughts on how I intend to do it. Im not sure if it will work out though.

    Im thinking of placing a multiwii crius v2 board on the gimbal, then connecting it to an OSD which is configured to only display the gimbal heading, and maybe the altitude.

    Next, I will use a small video splitter to send the osd display to both the pilots VTx and the Camera Operators VTx. Im thinking of setting up the OSD such that the gimbals Heading is displayed just below the hexacopter's heading.

    If this works out as I imagine, i suppose that as the pilot, I will always know which direction my camera operator faces.
    Supposed the copters heading is 000 and the gimbals heading is 090, when the camera operator says "move away and higher" I would know that i either need to roll left and increase throttle or change my heading to 270 then move foward as i gain altitude.

    Just my two cents.
     
  12. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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  13. Tim Joy

    Tim Joy Active Member

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    In theory this could work, but if you are flying line-of-sight and need to look down at the monitor and calculate a heading offset I don't think it would be very practical.
     
  14. mathewfarrell

    mathewfarrell Member

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    Haven't flown dual-op yet, but if you have a second FPV camera aimed straight down, as Andy does, give the camera op a second monitor or a switcher to view down. That way he can get a top-down view to orient boom #1 and his target. Camera op then gives directions relative to boom #1.
    I like this concept, because the pilot has more at stake with keeping the bird in the air. The camera op, relatively, is more free to take his hands off the sticks to scratch his head.

    The downside is another video transmitter required, or switcher and slip rings to the boom mounted 'down camera'.
     
  15. mathewfarrell

    mathewfarrell Member

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    Just thought of another idea-- A flight training tactic I was taught was to attach a tail boom to your bird. Basically a piece of fishing rod with a lump of bright foam on the end to help you keep your orientation. If you attach such a tail to the camera gimbal, the pilot can easily see the cam op's heading and work out his directions from there.
    e.g. cam op gives directions completely relatively to his framing. The pilot would then have the option of yawing the bird to match the camera, or do the offset in his head and maneuver accordingly.
     
  16. Shaun Stanton

    Shaun Stanton Active Member

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    The best way to handle this is having the cam ops view available to you. Either have a second monitor and receiver, or if using DJI equipment like a zenmuse you can toggle between the two cameras on the RC controller. Its really the only way to have situation awareness on what the cam op is looking at. This imperative if you are trying to do vehicle follows especially a top down 90 degree angle. Trying to gauge it line of sight, is hard to really do way the hell out there. It is possible to line of sight it, but very difficult. The easiest way I find to fly two person ops 95% of the time with some exceptions is keeping the nose orientation constant and using lateral movements to achieve turns. Example, you start following a car down a road in front of you. Then the car makes a 90 degree turn to the left. I will left stick to follow him. Now my movements are based on what the camera operator will do. One is that he does nothing and now you are looking at a vehicle going right to left. The other possibility is that the cam op rotates the camera 90 degrees to keep the previous framing bottom to top. Personally I think it is more fluid if the cam op does nothing.

    The point is that if the cam op does nothing a dolly left will be more left stick and a truck in will be forward. If the cam op rotates the gimbal 90 degrees to the left now a dolly left is going to be a slight pitch back and a truck movement will be the stick left more.

    Those two motions alone will dictate what the pilot movements will be and it is much easier to view on the cam ops monitor.
     

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