pan knuckle

Discussion in 'MōVI M10' started by TSUYOSHI YASUMOTO, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. TSUYOSHI YASUMOTO

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    Four screw holes of M3 of "Pan Knuckle" I have smashed during the adjustment.I have put a helical insert as measures for the time being.In addition , hexagonal hole so crushed immediately , towards the M3 screws to secure it too , are frequently replaced .
    This structure can be so simple and light . But the screw is thin and weak . Pan balance is difficult to adjust .
    Or would not to be able to adjust more easily and tough.

    So, do you have any ideas for this "Pan Knuckle"?
    P1010921.jpg
     
  2. Nils Ruinet

    Nils Ruinet Member

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    Agreed, with heavier cameras this adjustment is a bit tricky, that's the one adjustment that could be improved.
     
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  3. Brad Meier

    Brad Meier Active Member
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    You only need to slightly loosen at this adjustment point and then take weight off the connection by supporting the camera with one hand to be able to slide forward or back. Left to right movements are easier but it's still better to keep as much weight off the connection when adjusting.
     
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  4. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Tsuyoshi are you using something other than the supplied hex driver to tighten up the knuckle?
     
  5. Eric Ulbrich

    Eric Ulbrich Member

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    Had the same issue with mine last week. Movi sent me a new pan nuckle really quick. I am installing it this week. I was suprised at how tiny those screws are, but again with weight being an issue, its prob for the best.
     
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  6. TSUYOSHI YASUMOTO

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    Yes! Sure! Of course!
     
  7. TSUYOSHI YASUMOTO

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    " a new pan nuckle " !! From Freefly? I want it!
     
  8. TSUYOSHI YASUMOTO

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    I mean I am using the supplied one which you gave to me.
     
  9. bevan goldswain

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    I urgently need a new pan knuckle, I have tried contacting Freefly support.
    Does anyone have a phone number for freefly? I can't seem to find one anywhere?
     
  10. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Bevan send an email to support@freeflysystems.com. There is no phone number. Also there was another from Denise that they are closed for the U.S. Thanksgiving holidays until Monday.
     
  11. Mark Pugh

    Mark Pugh New Member

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    Tabb, I have to say, this area needs a redesign. This is an expensive unit, and your customers were promised a well-designed system that will last. This is one part of the MoVI that is a let-down.
    Seems to me that the Knuckle needs a rethink, and maybe the Pan axis horizontal tube needs a guide/knotch along it for the clamp to lock into and run along.
    Alternatively, the horizonal pipe could be made of square tubing. People then wouldn't feel the need to over-tighten the bolts, as there'd be no slippage due to weight. What's the point of having that joint swinging left/right with every adjustment? There is none! Of course, eliminating the need for worrying about, and correcting for, the left/right sway of the pan vertical pipe would speed up the whole pan balance operation a lot.
    Right now, I imagine people get nervous doing pan balancing at all, as the knuckle is clearly not going to last.

    At very least, redesign that clamp with larger bolts and thread, PLEASE.
     
  12. Brad Meier

    Brad Meier Active Member
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    Mark, I can't comment on your first point but I know they consider all feedback from those in the field very important.

    As for your second point of using square tubing, 2 things. Round tubing is structurally superior to square tubing. I don't think it much matters in this case because I'm sure the loads are not approaching anything square couldn't handle. Moot point there.

    Now you say "What's the point of having that joint swinging left/right"... There are two steps to balancing the pan axis. One is fore and aft, the other is the "swinging left/right". If you had the exact same setup every time you used the MoVI then this could be locked down but so could all the other adjustment points.

    As a temporary fix you could install longer M3 bolts at the pan adjustment and that would give you the ability to back the bolts off a good bit before they would release from the pan knuckle.. which I suspect is the main issue.
     
  13. Mark Pugh

    Mark Pugh New Member

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    Brad, isn't the left/right adjustment is just to correct the vertical pipe after the efforts of adjusting and testing the fore/aft balance (with the force of the 5-10 degree tilt procedure)?
     
  14. Chris Fox

    Chris Fox Active Member

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    A helicoil insert in the pan knuckle would probably solve most of the issue, with a steel thread the bolt will not be able to strip out the aluminium knuckle, only thing is I don't know if there is enough material on the knuckle for the 3.4-4 mm hole for the helicoil insert. looking at that though a 3.4mm hole and insert may just solve the problem.
     
  15. Brad Meier

    Brad Meier Active Member
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    Mark, check out the pan balance tutorial here: http://www.freeflysystems.com/media/tutorials.php

    Its a 2 set process. You are balancing in both steps, not merely making it vertical again. Most setups the vertical down tube will not be completely vertical but will require a few degrees either way to be balanced. My Epic setups are probably around 5 degrees off center from vertical to achieve perfect balance.
     
  16. Mark Pugh

    Mark Pugh New Member

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    I'm surprised. I can't see why a perfectly vertical tube wouldn't work, unless there's something wrong with the gimbal.
    Gotta say, my stand has a tilt. always has. The left/right pan balance test is impossible without a perfectly level top bar on the stand. I therefore have to do it by eye, and check with the MoVI on, and testing extreme tilting.
     
  17. Brad Meier

    Brad Meier Active Member
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    I don't see why you think that means theres something wrong with the gimbal.. its physics.

    To test the balance you have to be at an angle anyways. Turning the MoVI on will only mask an imbalance situation.
     
  18. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Mark: The balancing technique for pan (by twisting the vertical post) had me pondering it too, but I think I have it figured out.

    The problem is this: you need to get the center of gravity (CoG) of the *entire* camera and gimbal right under the pivot point of the pan motor (a.k.a the shaft of the motor). This doesn't really have anything to do with tilt and roll directly -- although it is dealing with the consequences of adjusting the balance of tilt and roll.

    You can move the CoG of the entire assembly to the front or back by moving the knuckle on the top of the vertical post to the front or the back.

    With the knuckle moving to the front or back you can get the C of G of the camera and gimbal right in line with the top "handlebar" and pivot point, but what (as usually is the case) if that CoG is left or right of the pan pivot point (as viewed from the MoVI operator)? There is no way to shift the entire gimbal plus camera's CoG left or right along the "handlebar," other than by rotating the "vertical" post out of the vertical. It's Newton's fault! :)

    It's a two step process because by taking the post out of the vertical you want to check that you've not shifted it fore and aft -- hence the rotate the camera 90 degrees left and check.

    Hope this helps.
    (Did I get it right Brad?)
    Andy.
     
  19. Chris Fox

    Chris Fox Active Member

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    Newton would agree with you
     
  20. Brad Meier

    Brad Meier Active Member
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    You got it right Andy.

    The two steps are checking the front to back position of the knuckle and then the left to right angle of the vertical post. Both required to get perfect pan balance.
     

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