New M5 owner/aerial jello help please

Discussion in 'MōVI M5' started by Chris Delaney, Aug 16, 2015.

  1. Chris Delaney

    Chris Delaney Member

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    Hey guys. I am very green with the m5. basically Ive been using auto tune @ 70% with my gh4 and veydra glass (1350 grams total).

    I am trying to eliminate jello, or at least reduce it. My rig is very solid. Balanced props. Precision aligned motors etc. I am obsessive about the details so I feel that I need to fine tune the movi but I wouldn't be so naive to think the movi is the only fault here. it could be a combination of things.

    I get good steady video until I get above the tree line and the wind hits me. We had about 15 mph gusts here today. The jello is worse when the camera is facing down.

    Here is a 90 second video.

    I am all ears. Thanks folks.

     
  2. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Photos of your setup concentrating on the vibration damper setup you have would help.
     
  3. Chris Delaney

    Chris Delaney Member

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    1100mm hexacrafter. Tmotor u7. A2. T motor props.
    Hexacrafter vibration isolation system. I know a couple guys that use this exact same iso system with very good success.
    20150806_190557_resized.jpg 20150806_190532_resized.jpg
     
  4. Jason Smoker

    Jason Smoker Active Member

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    are those tarot dampeners? i think you can different colours of those to make it more stiff?? I read someone else here had some problem with those type
     
  5. Chris Delaney

    Chris Delaney Member

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    No. They are not cheap balls. The following is from the manufacturer who I have gotten to know personally and this is what he says about his dampeners:

    "Vibration/ Shock isolation is a science best left to the professionals.
    Our design was a cooperative effort with a MAJOR full size aircraft component vibration/ shock isolation firm.
    It cost some $$, but it was tested to specific load & harmonic ranges in their lab"

    It comes with 8 blue balls (medium) and 4 red balls (hard). Even the blue are harder than anything you will get at hobby king or tarot.
    They are silicone.

    Do you guys really think this is a isolation problem?
     
  6. Chris Delaney

    Chris Delaney Member

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    It had nothing to do with the vibration isolation system. Made changes to the gyro settings. From 5 to 3... Increased all 3 axis stiffness. 7 minutes of video today. All smooth like butter.

    Cheers.
     
    Jason Smoker and Steve Maller like this.
  7. Jack Wrangham

    Jack Wrangham Member

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    Hi Chris

    Been having similar issues with gh4/m5 - will try reducing gyro like you did, can you tell me what you increased the stiffness to? was it a little or a lot?

    Cheers
     
  8. Chris Delaney

    Chris Delaney Member

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    Here is a couple shots with the new settings. Please keep in mind I didn't have a video feed. Was just moving the camera blindly as this was a stability test. Cheers.


    Screenshot_2015-08-18-15-59-24.png Screenshot_2015-08-18-15-59-26.png Screenshot_2015-08-18-15-59-30.png Screenshot_2015-08-18-15-59-33.png Screenshot_2015-08-18-15-59-39.png Screenshot_2015-08-18-15-59-42.png
     
  9. Chris Delaney

    Chris Delaney Member

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    just keep in mind I have a pretty heavy lens so your settings may be different.
     
  10. Cody Hanthorn

    Cody Hanthorn Member

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    I have a very very similar carbon plate from your setup made by DYS. I tried last week using the Z15 white vibration dampeners and found they where too soft. I have some Zeal Gel I thought about sandwiching the plates together, or use the DYS balls. Any thoughts either way on mounting? I hear about soft gel with get the high frequency vibs out, and zeal may work best for that, but I am not sure if I need another layer of dampening or sandwich some harder rubber inline with it. Thoughts?
     
  11. Chris Delaney

    Chris Delaney Member

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    The balls I am using are suprisingly hard. R&D was hired out by hexacrafter and the silicone balls are made specifically for him. You use all blue balls for up to 7 pounds or so and half blue/half red for 8-15 lbs.
    If you are happy with my footage I'd say bite the bullet and order the vibration system from him and adapt it to your frame. It is not cheap but peanuts in comparison to everything else.
     
  12. Cody Hanthorn

    Cody Hanthorn Member

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    The black ones I have are as well. I would be heavily suprised that if I use my black ones alone they would dampen enough to get all frequency ranges dampened out. As well I am not sure how stiff is right for a gimble. If you push on it how many times should it go back and forth? I like somewhat stiff in wind it would keep the movi from looking like its dangling from a cable swinging all over like last weekend look and felt. It didnt have any vibs, but the video was crap. gimble gains where too low and the bottom plate was swinging too much hitting the landing gear...(23mph winds..)..
     
  13. Cody Hanthorn

    Cody Hanthorn Member

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    Black ones did not work as well as I hoped. There is a frequency band the the video pics it up. going to try some other mounting. Wish there was a known good mounting method for MR on m5.
     
  14. Cody Hanthorn

    Cody Hanthorn Member

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    I spent some time tuning last night. Much better Two concerns I have is the pitch does not seem to hold as good as I hoped. Its a lighter camera gain of 7, Gyro of 7 and output filter of 7. Seems if I go any higher the shakes begin in the gain or gyro. Lastly I cannot get the Yaw to balance out since the camera it to light as well. the gimble is all the way forward and still back heavy. I think this might be causing an issue when the MR has heavy wind and Naza correction of left to right is aggressive in winds causing the screen to have an odd left right 'shift' or jump. I will post a video of this. Nothing as smooth as your setup. What does the Autotune at diffrent % do for you? I am at 50.
     
  15. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Cody add weight to the camera. That may help with a light camera. Gyro and output shouldn't need to be that high. Standard settings should work. Try autotune at 70%. Autotune will get it close. But the camera absolutely needs to be perfectly balanced following the tutorial videos. If you can't get balanced then all bets are off on getting it tuned and excellent results.
     
  16. Cody Hanthorn

    Cody Hanthorn Member

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    Chris,

    I watched your footage again and it looks like roll tremor at first and then the point down shot shows the movement. I am not sure if you can increase your roll gain if that would help. Your video is light years better than the video I shot today. I re-balanced the gimble prior to this video. The Jello is super frustrating. Not sure what to do. Its a Zeal gel sandwich. Maybe a little to stiff.



    I could go the cable method with the 55 degree offsets, or call quadro copter and drop 300 on the isloation setup...Any thoughts I would greatly appreciate.

    -Cody
     
  17. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Cody: Just from the audio it sounds like you're getting an awful lot of vibration -- you can hear it as a sort of vibrato on the prop noise. I'd start by checking that the props are balanced, the motors are aligned -- the setup you are using might also have some natural resonances that are being communicated down to the MōVI.

    Can you post some images of your setup?

    Andy.
     
  18. Cody Hanthorn

    Cody Hanthorn Member

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    Andy,

    I agree. I went through the props last night and found the DYS motors on the frame where off one one arm in particular. I am machining a jig at work to make absolutely certain the motors are parallel to the machine. It will fit in between the motor plates. With the DYS setup it does not have a mechanical system to guarantee props are parallel to the horizon and to each other. I will post pics if tonight if I have time. I changed the Zeal setup to half the number of zeal pads. Its a little more movable. I thought if its too stiff it will pick up everything regardless of sandwich.
     
  19. Cody Hanthorn

    Cody Hanthorn Member

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    Better after fix. Tightened gimble as well.

    I cannot get the pitch any higher and it vibrates. This is zoomed in on a church about a mile away. Note the 1:50 mark the Yaw performance does not like something. Thoughts? Atleast not a Jello heart attack, but the yaw quirk not sure. Dead calm wind.
     
  20. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    I notice you zoom in -- what kind of focal length are you using (on which kind of camera) -- also do you have any kind of image stabilization enabled on the lens?

    Can you reproduce the problem on the ground just swinging the M5 (not mounted to the copter)?

    Andy.
     

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