I commented on the NatGeo page itself actually, last years S800's did have fundamental engineering flaws. They have addressed most of them but none the less. It's design is a different animal than a carbon tube based layout aka cinestar or droidworx. I've had mine for over a year and have well over 500 flights on it. Not long ago I pushed it a little too hard and damaged the speed controllers but other than that it's been great. You really need to understand it's limitations though. I've been flying DJI FC's for awhile and have only had one mishap where a bird tried to fly back to china but little did I know that day the sun had burst out two gigantic/historical red coronal masses that wreaked havoc on the earth's geomagnetic sphere causing the incident. What it looks like to me is he either lost a motor or speed controller, you see in the older style arms they use single strand wires epoxied into a rib in the center of the arm. What happens is that since the wires are soldered to the ESC's directly beneath the motors at one of the biggest vibration points on the frame the solder is likely to break. In the new EVO arms they have multi-strand wire running through a carbon fiber tube down the center of the arm so the wires are loose and can handle this vibration much better. I've seen it happen dozens of times with S800's. As for data logging. I would imagine they would have iOSD installed (who wouldn't?) and if they did then yes you can retrieve a boat load of data to help resolve exactly what happened. I have the original MK1 and it was a simple firmware upgrade that allowed access to the data log. As hard as it is to react in that split second if he had switched it into atti/manual mode and engaged course lock he should have been able to bring it down with minimal damage even though it would have kept spinning it is possible to bring it back or at least down. (uber pucker factor though) How they fixed it? spare parts or not they were in china. I'm sure parts aren't that hard to find since that's where they are manufactured. I agree with Katya on several points but two stand out the most, DJI makes it easy for less experienced operators and vigorous testing is a must for any of these platforms. I'm still not comfortable with my Droidworx Skyjib8 V2, it fly's like a dream but as for carrying RED I'm only getting 10min at 5lb payload and it should be able to pull 10min at 12lbs. I am running Wookong on it with Aerial media pros 500kv motors and 85A opto speed controllers but it was originally built by hoverfly and they didn't use a PDB, they simply soldered all the wires together I've already had two mishaps with it and am looking at the Power Hungry board before even attempting to hook up the MoVI MR that's on it's way to it. You really need to be or have a team of engineers around you when working with these platforms as I'm sure all of you know.
Therein lies the rub, at least for me. I appreciate the extraordinary capabilities these platforms provide to us as photographers. But I am also a businessman, and while I'm aware of the value of community and I contribute here regularly, I am also aware of competition and the way that works. So my engineering background comes in handy in many ways, not the least of which is staying one step ahead of the guy next town over.
I would really like to put this out to all of you whom work at a high commercial & Feature film level. Now that the MoVi has been released ,many of us will joust to get it in our mix ,production wise. I think it is wise to open the floor ,and try to set a rate for its rental. If this is not done ,i fear producers ,being who they are ,will drive us all into those dark areas ,sliding mush in a dented army plate across the floor to see which one of us is hungry enough to bite! It only takes one ,and then we have lost the edge of negotiating. Because of what i am trying to do with this MoVi..i have already spent some 18k ,and project that it will be 25k by the time all the zip ties are cut. I will be asking $1500.00 a day...more if there is a second operator needed ..say $2850.00 As a weekly 3000.00 The floor is yours? Thoughts
Welcome Flix 5, can you please change your username to your real name as outlined here http://forum.freeflysystems.com/index.php?threads/real-names.497/ Anyway, in my opinion its impossible to set rates for anything (whether its services or equipment rental) as you will find out that there are guys that will undercut you. There is no professional etiquette in the AV business. It's all about supply and demand and what you can get away with. Thats the business and it happens all the time. The guys that are starving for business will be the ones to undercut the prices and the ones that lower the ceiling. In the end you always find the ones that burst the bubble are the ones that are out of business in 6 months anyway. Best advice: Stick to your guns and don't cave in. At the same time be reasonable and let your reputation be your selling point.
Flix once you change your user name ask to be added to the Rental Rate discussion. Since the regular forum is searchable by Google we would suggest you not discuss your rates here.
The Power Hungry board is a good choice. I used it but made some modifications so that it would fit better inside of the Cinestar8 hub. I shortened the stack, removed the heat sinks, then added some insulator G10 plates so that there would be no risk of + or - plates shorting on to the CR airframe. ALso I added an extra connector to go to the remaining electronics.
Couldn't agree more but not sure how feasible owning a second CS8HL with RED Dragon camera around at all times will be PCG
I think we are all basing our optimism on these factors: the generally-held assumption that Freefly are very meticulous and professional they eat their own dog food (look that one up if you don't get the reference) their track record with the MōVI the availability of considerably higher-end parts in today's market that could provide dramatically better performance than the competition (better radios, GPS, etc...) Freefly's courage to charge what things are actually worth in order to deliver something truly effective So we wait...sigh.
It's always sad to see a bird go down, but it's hard to me to have sympathy for anyone who flys the s800 POS in particular. Yes, some have put many hours on them, but when you look how they are made and the multiple failures that could occur... just bogles the mind. I bought into the marketing hype and tempting price of the first version s800 for all of 1 week. Vibrating plastic junk. Just because the zenmuse CAN stabilize with that much vibration doesn't meant that it's OK for the rest of the bird. DJI controllers I don't particularly like how they fly, but they do seem stable, unless you get in trouble with some bad beta firmware. But DJI airframes?? Never. They should be outlawed as a professional tool. Just my completely objection opinion.
I'm very optimistic as well but also very wise. I'll wait 6 months or so after Synapse release before jumping on board. Any wise AP person operating a biz probably would do the same especially if they're running issue free with their current setup. We're not talking about a gimbal controller here, switching out a flight controller is a major consideration, there WILL be new bugs discovered once it hits the public's hands even despite all of the beta testing going on...it's unfortunate but it's to be expected, again unfortunately. If all is well with the public after 6 months and there are reports of outstanding performance...I'm all in!
Don't fly GPS and don't set up come/go home failsafe. Too many beginners are relying on these feature, learn how to fly manual and only fly manual and 90% of these issues are alleviated. And as mentioned above, all systems should be tested multiple times before a job, retested, and retested continuously - lucky no one was hurt!
Howard Do you have a HL? My dilema is that I want a HL but don't really like the options out there. If you have a HL can you tell me what setup you are running?
I have and have been flying for years what I call a 1st edition HL using Axi 2826 motors on 13" props @ 4s and MK flt board/freefly ESCs and flying all the BIG cinema cameras. I only just recently upgraded to the freefly ESCs from old school 1hoch4 ESCs. I just fly the MK board with no gps or compass. I don't even have the barometer sensor installed. What we have today are the super HLs where guys are not only lifting the BIG cameras but also getting flight times of 12-18 min and soon 20-25 mins. I'll soon be acquiring Avrotos running 15 and 16" props on 6s (time to play catch up) where I should get 12-15 mins flight time on my heaviest cinema setup. As far as super HL options, there are literally countless options out there which wasn't the case just a couple years back.
Hi, I am filming with multis since 2010 (MK) and using DJI products since early 2013. Filming 80 to 100 days/year. We had several wobbling crashes, pretty much similar (from what I can see) to the one that happened to NatGeo guys. I'd say 6-7 crashes, most of them resulting with only a broken prop or one broken arm and a gimball that needed re-balancing but nothing lethal It always happened while descending, with batteries 2/3 empty. Most of the time the wind conditions were a bit gusty (10-15kmh wind and up to 25kmh gusts). It seems that the machine is stuck in its vortex and the gyros/motors are overcompensating to level the machine. I learned from each situation resulting in a "near to OK" procedure while having to deal with this problem. Here is my procedure when it occurs: - put all sticks back to neutral - throttle down to 20% - switch the machine to MANUAL mode - throttle back up while sliding the machine on one side to try and have it flying outside of the vortex - full throttle until I see the machine elevating and stable, and then back to 50%. The last time I did that procedure I totally got the machine back under control after a 100m dead leaf-like wobble down (except that 20m above ground it started to wobble again and it lightly crashed in front of me...). My gains are a bit low (110) as I like when the machine flies a bit "soft" it is more adapted to aerial filming. But as a new season starts, I will take the time to readjust my gains as mentioned by many around 140-150. To not be caught by your vortex, you need to never descend vertically. Fly your multi just like a plane, circling down in a large spiral. NOTE: Of course Synapse looks good and might be more accurate and hopefully more reliable BUT: do never forget that all of this gear that one sell us as "professional gear" is nothing more than expensive toys. THIS IS NOT AVIATION GEAR with certifications. Until then multirotor gear has to be considered as dangerous toys that you cannot rely on 100%!! The day when IAA will certify this gear it will be secure. The problem is that the tiniest really professional and certified drone will cost over 50'000 USD...
Great comments, Cyril. Preparation is critical, as is practice in dealing with awkward circumstances.
Well said Tim. Once I saw S800 in person it was a huge disappointment. DJI has a good marketing for sure. I understand Phantom price/performance but S800? It just doesn't feel right but still, people use it. I'm just wondering if DJI can be trusted with their flight controllers if their company policy is money first, responsibility and customers last. I know many members here use WKM and some A2. I had some bad experience with NAZA-M V2 and I'm cautious about putting another DJI (A2) on my next build. Still undecided what FC to get. For sure, DJI is a dynamic company. They now have a new website. When you go to "About Us", there is something that sounds very funny in this context. There is a sentence starting with "We want the best for ourselves..." and they sure do.