Movi Pro + Sony A7RII pan issue when camera switched on

Discussion in 'MōVI Pro' started by David Jorissen, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. David Jorissen

    David Jorissen New Member

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    Hi all

    Just received my Movi Pro a couple of days ago and I'm a bit struggling with an issue which starts when I switch on my camera (Sony A7RII).

    The camera is nicely balanced like it should but from the moment I switch on my camera or it goes out of standby mode, the pan axis starts moving from left to right and back continuously until the camera switches off or goes into standby mode. It does this both when the ring is standing on the floor as well as when I am holding it.

    Sometimes this movement is slow, sometimes a bit faster but not like vibrations which would occur from too high stiffness settings. I've tried several kind of settings, higher and lower stiffness, higher and lower pan hold settings, heading assist off or switched to compass, majestic on and off, majestic settings high and low, did several auto tunings (50% and 70%), tested with follow focus attached as well as basic camera + lens only setup... nothing stops the movement unless switching off the camera.

    I have tried to switch off the camera's LCD monitor, switch off all transmitting functions of the camera, switched on and off internal camera stabilisation... nothing helps, the pan axis keeps moving. To me it looks like some electrical interference caused by turning on the camera, unfortunately I don't have a second camera to test with.

    Anyone here who had similar issues and or knows how to solve this?

    Appreciate your help!

    Cheers
    David

    ps: I tried to upload a video of the issue, although 4.6 MB, it says it's too big for the server to handle.
     
  2. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    Is your In-Body Image Stabilizer on the camera off? Do you see the Movi moving, or just the image?

    Many people upload videos to YouTube or Vimeo and then post the links here. Would love to see the video to help me understand your problem.
     
  3. David Jorissen

    David Jorissen New Member

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    Yes the in-body stabilizer is switched off. Also the wifi and other wireless sharing options of the camera are switched off. The pan axis of the Movi Pro starts moving from the moment I switch the camera on. When I was using my Ronin M, the Ronin would start making a much louder sound from the moment I switched my camera on. The sound would only stop from the moment the camera switched off or in sleep mode. So it's not only the Movi Pro, also the Ronin reacted different when the camera was on. It's just that it's quit annoying to have this kind of movement while it should be steady. Unfortunately I don't have another camera to test it with.

    I was testing a bit more earlier this evening, switched the settings back to default (pan stiffness 10) and had the impression the movement was much slower and less noticeable (but still there). From the moment I did an auto tune (40%) and the pan stiffness was set to 91, the pan movement was obvious again when the camera was switched on. When I lower the stiffness, it looks like the movements becomes slower and slower and shorter but not completely gone. When the camera is off, the movement stops. Tried to power the camera by the Movi Pro but that didn't help.

    I will try to upload the video somewhere else and embed it here. The pan movement is like the camera is shaking like a person would shake when he wants to say 'no, no, no, no,...' (until his brain switches off).
     
  4. David Jorissen

    David Jorissen New Member

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    Here are some videos:


    <iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/251077434" width="640" height="1138" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>
    <p><a href="">Movi Pro balanced : motors off</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/user41947258">David Jorissen</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>


    <iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/251077407" width="640" height="480" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>
    <p><a href="">Movi Pro pan drift top handlebar view_converted</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/user41947258">David Jorissen</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

    <iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/251077390" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>
    <p><a href="">Movi Pro short pan movements camera view</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/user41947258">David Jorissen</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>
     
  5. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    Strange that it's only when the camera is turned on.

    What are your Filters set to? Can you please tell us both Individual Pan, Tilt, & Roll Filters, and Output Master Filter, and Gyro Filter settings? High filter settings can cause Oscillations like you're showing.

    Also, what is your Heading Assist set to?

    And lastly, what are your Pan and Tilt Window settings. You could also just screenshot all these pages and upload those if it's easier.
     
  6. David Jorissen

    David Jorissen New Member

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    it's indeed weird.

    I've attached some print screen of the settings. After those settings, I also tried by setting all settings back to default, also then the issue is still there although the movements seems to be slower and smaller, but not completely gone. I have tried with higher and lower output filters, higher and lower gyro filters, did 40% to 70% auto tuning, tried different pan hold settings up to 35, nothings stops the movement.

    My headings assist is off. I activated compass (calibrated it) but this also didn't solve it so I switched it back to off.

    My pan and tilt windows were set at different levels to check if it solved anything but it didn't. I've tried from 0 to about 12 for the window and 1 to 15 for smoothing. Whichever setting is used, the issue persists.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Rick Gerard

    Rick Gerard Active Member

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    Unless you are powering the camera through the USB there is no way that powering the A7 on should affect the MoVI.

    Make sure the software is up to date, carefully check the App and look at the real-time graphs to see where the noise is coming from.

    I run Sony A7SII all the time and several other cameras. With just a Sony mirrorless in the cage, the rig seems a little more sensitive, but I usually have a lot more in there.

    Here's my typical A7 setup balanced and ready to attach to a Steadicam. The camera is mounted on the front of the MoVi plate, on the back, there is a long Arca Swiss plate and I've attached my Shogun Inferno. The Arca Swiss plate makes it really easy to fine tune the balance. There is a focus motor, usually also an iris motor. The Shogun inferno is connected by HDMI set to start recording by camera timecode. Out of the Shogun, I take an SDI to a Bolt that sends wireless picture sound and time code to the focus puller who also sometimes frames the shot with a mimic. I broke my thin SDI cable and had to use a monster fill in this time so it looks pretty ugly. The A7 usually also has a dual-channel Sony wireless mic receiver attached to the multi-function shoe so I can pick up good audio. Everything is powered by the D-tap ports and the current draw is about the same as a Red.

    The Shogun is a little occluded by the back of the MoVI and the controller but it's still really easy to see and frame shots that are pretty much at eye level. I set up the rig a little differently for high and low shots. The camera is rolled remotely via wi-fi and a smartphone. If I am not shooting 4K we will often just let the Mimic operator roll using the Ninja Inferno I use as a monitor and recorder for the director's copy. This is an awfully sweet setup for shooting with a mirrorless or DSLR.

    rig.jpg mimic.jpg
    The bottom image is the Mimic Setup with Bush Pilot.

    This camera/recorder package is just a little lighter than a Red and MoVI loves the weight. I would strongly suggest that you add some extra weight to your camera package. A little more weight to spread the load out a bit front to back will help.

    Other than that it is all tuning.
     
    #7 Rick Gerard, Jan 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  8. Rick Gerard

    Rick Gerard Active Member

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    Here is a closeup of the back side of the camera showing the long Arca Swiss plate used to attach the Shogun. Still plenty of room to get to the rear screen and make adjustments.
    rig-from-behind.jpg
     
  9. David Jorissen

    David Jorissen New Member

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    Hi Rick

    Thanks for your reply.

    The issue is there both when powering the camera with it's own battery as powering it via the Movi Pro. It does only start from the moment the camera is switched on and it stops from the moment the camera switches off. Very strange. It does look like that from the moment I make a pan movement, the issue is gone, once I stand still and hold the camera steady or put it the ring the floor, the left right shaking comes back.

    I went to two stores to try with different cameras. One was a Nikon DSLR, the other was another Sony A7RII. With both other cameras, the issue wasn't there, from the moment I put my camera on my Movi Pro, the issue was back. So it's definitely related to something in my camera, the sales staff in the stores have confirmed it but nobody understands what it is or what it could be or has ever heard about it or seen it before.

    The store where I bought the camera said they could send it in to service, but here in the Czech Republic it will take at least a month before I have it back and they would probably just reinstall software and tell it's solved according to the store. Also, to be able to understand the issue, they would need to replicate it and see it with their own eyes to maybe find the cause. That would mean that I would have to send my Movi Pro to the Sony service together with my camera, something I am not so keen about.

    I use the A7RII with a Movcam cage with a riser block, Xeen lenses, PDMovie follow focus and a Rodelink receiver for audio mounted on the Movi Pro camera cage via their Pop N Lock 15mm mount. Those accessories are not visible in the videos I posted as Freefly support requested videos without any accessories to show the balance. So I think, although not super heavy, the weight should be OK. I might add a matte box in the future though (probably a Tilta 4 x 5.65 Carbon Fiber clamp on matte box).

    I have installed the latests software on both my camera and Movi Pro. I have reset both to their factory defaults and tested multiple stiffness settings and other tuning options but nothing helped solving the issue. In case I can't find a way to solve the issue with the A7RII and it's too visible in the end result, I will probably have to buy another camera and use this one for photography only or as B-cam on a tripod or so. I just hoped to wait until they announce the Sony A7S III to see if it has great specs or if there would be interesting price drops on i.e. an URSA Mini Pro after NAB.
     
  10. Rick Gerard

    Rick Gerard Active Member

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    That is really odd. The only thing I can think of that may cause some kind of interference would be the camera WiFi. Mke sure that is turned off.
     
  11. David Jorissen

    David Jorissen New Member

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    it's odd indeed. The wifi etc. is turned off / A7RII in flight mode but it doesn't solve anything. I bought a Sony PXW - FS5 about 2 weeks ago and now it works perfect.
     

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