Movi pro + Mimic + Mimic & Bush pilot

Discussion in 'MōVI Pro' started by SeBaStIaN BArrEtT, Apr 9, 2017.

  1. SeBaStIaN BArrEtT

    SeBaStIaN BArrEtT Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2016
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    67
    Have to get a focus controller for upcoming shoots, and I am thinking about buying instead of renting. Either way, getting heden motor in anticipation of a higher-end focus controller being released by freefly

    the mimic costs $1000, bush pilot $300, heden motor $2500 = $3800
    heden + bartech = $5000

    For $1200 dollars less, is the extra mimic + the bush pilot worth it? Do those that own it think they could rely on it at a shoot? (the shoot is low pressure/ ok with equipment failures because it is close to a rental house). Is the range decent?

    Again, this is under the assumption freefly will be releasing a high-quality (close to bartech build, and ergonomic) focus knob in near-future.

    thanks in advance
     
  2. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2015
    Messages:
    1,221
    Likes Received:
    239
    Hey Sebastian!

    Before I talk about Bush Pilot, Tilta has a Nucleus II focus system out that's very affordable, and I was impressed with it when I looked at it a few weeks ago at a rental house. I think it was $3000 all-in, the MDR was tiny, it's expandable, and the build quality felt good. Check this out: http://tilta.com/shop/nucleus-i-wireless-lens-control-system-wlc-t01/

    First important thing to point out, now that they're selling the Mimic individually, I don't think they have a way to bind two Mimics to one Movi Pro yet. I'm not sure how that's supposed to work at the moment.

    So it looks like you'd be using Bush Pilot with your existing Mimic until there's some firmware update (which negates the need to spend $1000).

    I would say that most AC's who have to pull focus with a handheld moving camera would not appreciate the Bush Pilot. It might work better for aerials where you're more high and wide, not constantly riding focus, but if you need to pull focus accurately between, say, 6' and 8', then I can't say it's the best system. Your AC's going to be exclusively working off the monitor, and hunting for focus a lot.

    There's no swappable marking disc, so when you change lenses, you'd have to re-mark the ring. If you're just using one lens on your shoot, that might be less of an issue. I was thinking it would be good for Iris because that's something that doesn't have to be adjusted all the time, and doesn't always need a marked disc.

    Two other big things about Bush Pilot at the moment: You can't adjust the Direction of the motor, which is solvable by putting the motor on the other side of the lens and rebalancing, and you can't adjust the torque. People have been posting about overheating motors and calibration problems, but I'm not sure if that's due to Bush Pilot or the Movi Controller.

    Also, at the moment, you can't manually set end-stops when you're working with Canon stills lenses that don't have hard stops.

    Bush Pilot seems to have been designed to work on shoots that can't bring cases and cases of gear -- backpacking, traveling documentaries, small crews, etc. I even tried it as a one-man-band operator\focus system, and it worked OK, mounted it to the Ring. The cable on it seems very delicate.

    Buying a Heden motor is a good investment, for sure. Whether you go with Bartech or Hocus or Chroziel or something else, that's up to you. For a few hundred more $$, I'd get the Bartech Fstop 2-channel receiver from PLC.

    As a Movi Op, I have to offer a wireless focus solution, and the Bartech has been OK. I know others who like the Hocus. The Bartech looks kind of old-school robotics compared to newer models. Most AC's don't complain when we use it.

    We often rent the Arri WCU4 when I'm using the Mini, and I've met some AC's who will only work with Preston. In their defense, the Preston DM-1X motor is much more responsive than the Heden or Arri motors, and that's important to AC's who hate when the motor isn't fast enough to keep up.

    OK, that's a long enough post... :) Hope you're doing well.
     
  3. SeBaStIaN BArrEtT

    SeBaStIaN BArrEtT Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2016
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    67
    Thanks Graham!
    I'll stop making you jump from thread-to-thread telling me to stop $#@%ing around and get a bartech
     
    Graham Futerfas likes this.
  4. Josh Park

    Josh Park Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2016
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    19
    I just did a 2 week job with Mimic Pro + Bush Pilot + Redrock Torque motor. Movi Pro was built with Sony A7s II and Bush Pilot setup. Pulled mostly on Leica R primes which were cinevised with proper gear teeth. My AC had zero issues pulling on it fully wireless with SmallHD 702 monitor on Paralinx Ace.

    At times, I even took off Mimic Pro and Bush Pilot, used the pop and locks to mount directly on the Movi ring and pulled my own focus (oh crazy doc world) and it still worked perfectly fine.

    As long as your follow focus will stay on your Movi 100% of the time, I think it's the worth your investment. For additional $1300 I spent, I'd say it's really small form factor and lovely piece of gear.
     
  5. SeBaStIaN BArrEtT

    SeBaStIaN BArrEtT Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2016
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    67
    I am confused (super normal). . . .

    What did you use to control the gimbal movement? Graham made it seem like you could not connect 2 mimics at same time. . .
     
  6. Josh Park

    Josh Park Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2016
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    19
    Just majestic mode. My response was to your question about Bush Pilot with Heden motor. I don't have a 2nd Mimic to try so not sure yet.
     
    SeBaStIaN BArrEtT likes this.
  7. SeBaStIaN BArrEtT

    SeBaStIaN BArrEtT Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2016
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    67
    I trust graham, so I dont think ill try. Thats great that you had luck with your setup for 2 weeks though! As soon as they allow for 2 mimics, im all over that.
     
  8. Mike Moghaddam

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2016
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    5
    With your jobs that the ACs don't like the WCU-4 because they say the motors aren't responsive enough have you tried the CForce Plus motors? Those are super fast and responsive.
     
    Ryan Forte likes this.
  9. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2015
    Messages:
    1,221
    Likes Received:
    239
    I have not, but thanks for the tip. I only had the WCU Kit from Alternative to test at the time, and we tried all the motors that were in there. Next time I'm over there, I'll ask my rental agent about it. The Remote Follow Focus world has expanded so fast the last few years, it's hard to keep up! :)
     
  10. Mike Moghaddam

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2016
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    5
    I hear you there is so much stuff it's so hard to keep up. The only issues I ran into with the CForce Plus motor was with that and 2 CForce Mini motors just going through the LBUS port on the Alexa Mini there isn't enough power to turn the Plus super fast from one end to the other, it would stutter. You could just use just the plus motor without the other 2 motors or there is an Arri cable that's d-tap to LBUS to help give some extra power. And the Plus is much bigger and heavier, I had to put it on the other side of the other motors to balance.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Jacob Russell

    Jacob Russell New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey Sebastian,
    When you said heden+bartech = $5000, which parts were you talking about specifically? Can you list out which Heden and which Bartech you are referencing?

    Thanks!
     
  12. Ryan Forte

    Ryan Forte Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    12
    I own a 3 motor Chrosziel Magnum FIZ Kit with Heden Motors. It offers almost identical functionality at lower pricing and incredible service and support. Only thing missing is lens mapping.

    I often work as a 1st AC & an operator so I know both sides.

    At the high end I've worked with
    Preston HU3/MDR3 w/ DM1x & 2 motors
    Arri WCU4 w/ Cforce mini & plus motors
    Arri WCU4 w/ universal MDR & CLM Motors
    Chrosziel Magnum w/ Heden M26 &M21VEL
    CMotion Cvolution w/Camin4m & HedenM26

    Out of these systems what I can tell you is they are all amazing you can't go wrong with either one. The nice thing about systems like CMotion, Preston and Chrosziel they all use 7 pin motors and you use any combination of motors and cables between any of the systems. Preston motors on Chrosziel MDR and Heden with Preston.

    Arri is also amazing and if you are using Alexa Mini or any of the Arri cameras with plus modules you use the LDS and take advantage Lens Mapping and control of Camera Settings, but you have to use all Arri stuff and even through they make a universal MDR to work with any camera systems you have to use the CLM motors that won't offer LBus pass through that the Alexa mini uses so you need to have both kinds of motors it gets expensive. Note the cforce mini motors are a tad slow with not so much torque, but for most modern lenses won't be a problem.

    You can get an affordable chrosziel setup with 1 or two motors similar to what Graham has with Bartech F-Stop2 which has often been the affordable replacement to Preston for many years.

    I personally think Chrosziel's system is better than Bartech, but they are widely used for a reason because they work.

    I would personally beware of the Chinese companies like Redrock, Tilta,PDMovie Cinegears and any others coming into the market. I don't know how reliable they will be in the long run. You want your focus system to be a 5-10 year investment. Not something the company no longer supports in 2 years.

    Service and support are a huge factor of your purchase.
     
  13. Deniz Ozgoren

    Deniz Ozgoren Support Mage
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    273
    Likes Received:
    84
    Dual MIMIC support is with v1.3 Software Bundle. Its been in Beta for over a month. In a week or two, it will go to stable.
     
  14. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2015
    Messages:
    1,221
    Likes Received:
    239
    Yes, this is obviously an older thread that pre-dates Dual Mimic support.
     

Share This Page