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MK no longer shows signal loss = turn off Tx?

Discussion in 'Cinestar Misc' started by Gary McCready, May 16, 2014.

  1. Gary McCready

    Gary McCready Active Member

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    MX-20 GR-24 CS6 and MK Qaud
    I have two problems: No loss of signal FailSafe on the CS6 and BOTH Rx (two are on the same channel?? )

    Was updating my Smart OSD and had the props off the Cinestar.
    When I plugged in the battery, before turning on the MX-20, I got no beep, beep, beep...
    The Rx obviously was red, I turned on the MX-20, Rx turned green.
    Opened up MKTools, signal strength showed about 200, I turn off the Tx and it stayed at 200.
    Re-updated FC and NC, same problem.
    So right now I don't appear to have any loss of signal Failsafe??
    Note: connected to NC, bypassing OSD, problem still there!
    Any ideas?

    But it get weirder: Tested my MK Quad, turned off the Tx, Quad started beeping like it should.
    Armed the MK and BOTH MKs beeped. I had forgotten to unplug the CS6.
    I then did a quick motor start and stop and BOTH MK's responded.
    Right now I had the Tx selected for the MK Quad (unplugged), and it shows NO signal strength 0% but my CS6 Rx is GREEN and responds to arm input?? (Still slows Rx strength 200 too)
    OK: this is kinda feaky and dangerous. I rebound both Rx and still both MKs are responding.
    I have two problems: No loss of signal FailSafe on the CS6 and BOTH Rx (two are on the same channel??
    Also checked double binding of models (2 Rx) = nope
    edit: updated MX-20 to ver1.18 and alos updated GR-24, but do not know ver. No change. No errors in MKTools.
    Noticed that if I unplug the Tx the MK will signal loss fo signal with beeps. SO must be a problem with the Tx =GR-24L I tried two different ones.
    Now I've got another problem, I think my USB connector( with the pins on the SIDE not used) might have hit the motor leads on the circuit board. No connection to MKTools >>geeze I've got spare FC and NC but this is bummer.
     
  2. Gary McCready

    Gary McCready Active Member

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    Saga Continues: I think I fried the FC and NC on my CS6. I'm pretty sure the side pins on the USB hit the hex power distribution board at the solder connections for the motor. Can't get a connection to either of them with MKTools. I tried the reboot firmware, where you only put the jumper on after the power, but it still didn't work. No LEDs.

    I have found out this: My new GR-24L, with firmware 3.78 do NOT work with the MK. When I turn off the Tx the Mikrokopter signal strength does NOT change.
    With the ver. 3.75, that was on the MK Quad, and is now on my CS6, it works fine. When I switch off the Tx the signal strength goes to Zero and the MK Beeps, as it should.
    I tried to downgrade the GR-24L 's to 3.75, but was not successful. I only got back to 3.76, which I also think do not work!!!!
    Good news is I discovered it BEFORE I flew. The bad news is I fried a FC and NC.
     
  3. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Gary did some research on the GR L-series and they are incompatible with the MK -- they use a Graupner digital protocol apparently.

    Sorry to hear about the FC/NC frying. Ouch. :(

    Andy.
     
  4. Gary McCready

    Gary McCready Active Member

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    After much fiddling I think the old GR-24L with 3.75 works fine. So I think it might just be the firmware? I know the GR-16L and up do PPM, but the 12L does not.

    Guess I'm not the only one: This is a GR-16 (not an "L"?)
    http://www.multirotorforums.com/sho...r-mx20-and-gr-16-newest-firmware-NO-FAILSAFE-!!!!!

    And a GR-32 (Not an "L")
    http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1330285&page=154&highlight=failsaf#post28134054

    FC would not light up and the large square chip got very hot, guess I'll send both in for repairs, and put some tape around the USB circuit board.
     
  5. Ozkan Erden

    Ozkan Erden Distributor

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    I have a similar situation on a new copter. I use gr24 reciever and mx16, will check the firmwares once I hit back to the office.

    I think this matter should be informed to Holger.
     
  6. Gary McCready

    Gary McCready Active Member

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    I sent an email to Graupner and support@hisystems.de I guess we will see what happens. I tried to downgrade my two GR-24L 's to 3.74 again but can't get it to complete.
     
  7. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Gary the only 'L' series I see on the Graupner site is the GR12L. There is another new series of recv that include telemetry. Not sure whether these will work. Issue seems to be that we use SUM0 for output. The dew ones use SUMD which apparently doesn't work the same way with MK stuff.
     
  8. Gary McCready

    Gary McCready Active Member

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    The GR-16L and GR-24L are available in the USA (Open Hobby). Both do SUMO. The 12L only does SUMD.
    I was using a 24L, that definably does SUMO, but the other problem links are for users of non-L versions.
    I think the issue is not really about SUMO but about the way Graupner implemented the FS in the latest version of the Rx firmware. My version 3.75 GR-24L works fine. My two newer ver 3.76 GR-24L do not work. I upgraded them to 3.78, the latest, and they still don't work. They do the SUMO, but the MK doesn't recognize loss of signal, so MK Failsafe doesn't work.

    Posted by Graupner USA [​IMG]
    The difference between the L and non L versions of our RX's is that with the L version some software features are missing. The 12L can only do SUMD while all the other xxL RX's can do all SUMx variations but they lack some of the build in mixers capabilities.
    The reason for this was primarily to justify cost reduction. You can consider the GR-16L for your application.
     
  9. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Interesting that they aren't shown on the motherships home page
     
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  10. Gary McCready

    Gary McCready Active Member

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    Mikrokopter responds:
    Graupner did change the FailSafe function in the receivers. If you use the latest Software on your receiver you have to go into the Menue "Setting & Data view".
    There go to the window "RX Fail Safe Vx.xx" and change the "MODE" of channel 1 to "OFF". Now the copter will again receive the lost signal.

    Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards

    Lothar Freudenberg

    HiSystems GmbH


    And: apparently controlling all your models at the same time is a factor of all the Tx, except Spektrum with "Model Safe". At least with Graupner it will tell you "Zero signal strength", if you have the wrong model selected. Just don't forget to unplug one model before you plug in another, or you might get a nasty surprise.
     
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  11. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Andy

    GR L series are the only thing that graupner sells now. I just purchased the GR-24L from QC. Are you sure they are not compatible with MK?
     
  12. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    I just got a 24L from QC.
     
  13. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Gary

    My heads spinning with this stuff. Are you saying to install 3.75 for GR-24L's and it will be fine? Do the GR-24L's have SUMO but no MK fail safe?
     
  14. Gary McCready

    Gary McCready Active Member

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    Sorry for the confusion: This has been a work in progress.
    The older GR-24L with version 3.75 works fine. My two new GR-24L's did not work with failsafe, and have ver 3.78 If you buy a GR-24L, or any Graupner Rx, it might come with a later firmware version, which is not compatible. It can be made "safe" if you change a setting on your Graupner Tx. = RX FailSafe : change Channel 1 >> OFF
    I think this affects ALL Graupner Rx with more recent firmware, not just the "L" series. I read of others with the GR-24 and the GR-16 (both non-"L") who also had FS problems.

    From Lothar Freudenberg at MK tech support just yesterday:
    "Graupner did change the FailSafe function in the receivers. If you use the latest Software on your receiver you have to go into the Menu"
    ""Setting & Data view".
    There go to the window "RX Fail Safe Vx.xx" and change the "MODE" of channel 1 to "OFF". Now the copter will again receive the lost signal."

    The GR "L" series all do SUMO, as we need for the MK, except the 12L. The 12L does NOT do SUMO, so you need the 16L or up.

    Direct from Grauper USA tech support:
    "The 12L can only do SUMD while all the other xxL RX's can do all SUMx variations but they lack some of the build in mixers capabilities."

    So in a nutshell, to be safe: Change your RX FS on your TX, from Channel 1 to OFF! Then you will not have to worry about which Rx version you have.
     
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  15. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Gary
    I am using a MX20 and I do not see Setting and Data view as a menu setting. I see the following menu selections
    Base setup model
    control adjust
    Fail safe adjust.
    In the fail safe adjust it gives a window of 12 switches where you can set it up or down. Channel 1 is the only one up so I selected it down and it didn't make any difference.

    Any more info?

    <EDIT> I just found it in the telemetry settings. Changed it and it works like a charm now. Thanks.
     
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  16. Derek Cooper

    Derek Cooper Active Member

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    Gary - many thanks for sharing. Ran into the same issue with my MZ-24 at GR-24L. Tks!
     
  17. Gary McCready

    Gary McCready Active Member

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    Derek: you are welcome. Glad you found the thread. This drove me nuts for 4 or 5 days...lol I wasn't about to fly without Failsafe. You would think MK would have been all over this, and sent out a "warning" or something.
     
  18. Derek Cooper

    Derek Cooper Active Member

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    I had been working on the "issue," for a while, and your post solved it for me.

    MK could afford to update their website with the MZ-24 config and this important change indeed!
     

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