MK Double Quadro with KDE 5215XF-330 motors?

Discussion in 'Cinestar 8' started by Tim Sessler, Sep 24, 2014.

  1. Tim Sessler

    Tim Sessler Active Member

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    Hi guys -

    I am just rebuilding my Cinestar X8 - so far I've been running MK FC and GPS, i2C converter, 50A Castle ESCs, KDE 4014 motors with 17" CF props and have been using dual FF 6s 9,000mAh lipos for an AUW between 25 and 30lbs.

    My mission is to build something that flies even better and can lift higher payloads (or at least bring the hover throttle a bit further down).

    I would like to get away from the i2C converter but the only option with MK electronics seems to be using their MK Double Quadro V3 Cool ESCs. I'd love to run the KDE 5215-330 motors with 17" props but I wonder if that is too much for the MK ESCs?

    Does anybody have any experience running that set-up?

    Cheers,
    Tim
     
  2. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Check out the Herkules III brushless controller -- it works with the MK FC and NC so you can get motor and ESC telemetry data.

    Andy.
     
  3. Ozkan Erden

    Ozkan Erden Distributor

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    Hello Tim,

    330KV version of KDE 5215XF would work on MK BL Ctrl 3.0 But, are you sure you want to go with 330KV?

    If you look at the performance data sheet, 5215XF-330KV outputs almost the same thrust with 4014XF at the same prop size. 330KV version of 5215XF is more suited to 8S Lipo configuration. When you consider the weight of the motors, you will have higher throttle levels to hover the same AUW with 5215XF-330KV.

    If you need to have some more thrust, I would recommend two things:

    Easy way:
    * You can go with 18" props with 4014XF, which will generate %20 more lift overall. And this combo works beautifully on MK BL Ctrl 3.0 . But don't forget to send your motors to KDE for shaft upgrade.

    Other alternatives:
    * Dave King tried Tiger MN4120-400KV and he is quite happy with the result. It works good wit BL Ctrl 3.0. He is lifting Epic on a flat Octo. He chose this setup over U5 motors and his rig is flying good.

    If you choose Herkules III as ESC system, you have new options:

    * You can go with the new KDE 4215XF-465KV with 16" props. This will generate %40 more lifting power than your current setup. This combo is not tested on MK BL Ctrl 3.0 and it might not work due to the current consumption. This motor can handle 18" props also. If you put 17" prop on it, you can lift the world. ( http://kdedirect.com/KDE4215XF465.html )
    * You can go with 5215XF-435KV with 17" or 18" props, you can lift double RED Epic to air.

    As far as I know, you are using M10 and Red Epic. With 18" prop upgrade you will see lots of change in the power of the system.
     
  4. Tim Sessler

    Tim Sessler Active Member

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    Thanks for all this. Is there really such a difference between the Double Quadro V3 and Hercules? Seems like 25-30A per ESC are fine for the MK too. http://www.quadrocopter.com/Double-Quadro-V3--Cool-v35_p_1238.html

    According to KDEs numbers the 5215 would reach around 55A with 18" props at 100% throttle. That seems like it would be quite a bit too much for the Hercules, or?
     
  5. Ozkan Erden

    Ozkan Erden Distributor

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    Hi Tim,

    I believe Herkules III is much more superior in current handling when compared to BL Ctrl 3.0. BL Ctrl 3.0 limit is so sharp, if you pass it, you can expect it to fail any time.

    Herkules III is being used with U7 motors for a long time by some users and there is no single burned mosfet report with these combo. It dissappiates heat much more succesfully.

    The current draw depends on your AUW and prop size. If your AUW is around 20kg and the efficieny of your motor /prop combo is around 9 gr/w. (5215XF-435 + 18" prop)

    20000 / 9 = 2222 Watt total power consumption
    Since you are suing 6S Lipo:
    2222 / 22.2 = 100 Amps total
    Each motor will draw 12.5 amps when hovering.

    The maximum current draw should be the double of this. But, when you change the throttle very rapidly, your ESC will need to handle high amp draw for a second or so. I believe, MK BL Ctrl 3.0 fails at this point while Herkules is handling this much better.

    So, according to the math, total amp draw is depended on the AUW.
     
    Steve Maller likes this.
  6. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    HI Tim

    If you want to use the KDE 5215-330 motors with the Dual Quadro XL board using 6S on 16 and 17 inch props it should be fine. I believe its on the borderline with 18 inch props as peak current can go as high as 31 amps and that's close to what the Double Quadro V3 board can handle. So it depends if you are trying to run a X8 or a flat 8 setup and what your flying weight is. As a rule of thumb I would stay at a maximum of 28-29 amps max per motor when using the Dual Quadro XL for extra safety.

    I have heard good and bad about the Herkules boards and in my opinion there isn't enough test data on them at this kind of level for a full analysis. I would like to see at least 3 to 4 users with a minimum of 100 flights on these boards and setups before I consider them worthiness to try on my expensive rig. There seems to be optimizium with the Hercules boards though.
     

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