M5 Nodding

Discussion in 'MōVI M5' started by Daniel Doren Huerta, Oct 25, 2014.

  1. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    10,351
    Likes Received:
    1,160
    Good question, Brad.

    Daniel did say that he's not running Majestic Mode. (Message 12), but it does have the feel that the MōVI is behaving like it is and adjusting tilt when the window limit is reached, doesn't it?

    Andy.
     
  2. Brad Meier

    Brad Meier Active Member
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    749
    Likes Received:
    66
    Not with Tilt Mode set to Smooth Lock. Tilt Majestic settings have no effect there.
     
  3. Ashley Fairfield

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2013
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    5
    I've had this same issue with my M10 and the GH4. Andy was helping me in this thread http://forum.freeflysystems.com/index.php?threads/mr-gh4-slightly-unstable.5359/ and I thought I'd solved the problem by adding more weight to the camera tray. Unfortunately this only worked for one day and since then I've had the same issues. Not sure why it worked one day and not the next. It's interesting that it is happening on the M5 and M15 also. I have flown the BMCC and RED with no issues. I've tried to replicate what the cage does which is add more weight and brace the camera more securely, none of which has worked.
     
  4. Daniel Doren Huerta

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    4
    Dear community, the problem that I have appears to be present in all Movi`s categories (M5,M10,M15) somehow, someway according to some members`opinions and comments I read in this forum.

    Assuming:
    1. The camera is well balanced (motor% 1 or 2 in all axis according to GUI)
    2. No wires interfering
    3. Nothing is lost (no mechanical play and camera properly secured)
    4. Started with the automatic tuning as a starting point, and then final adjustments I rise all values ​​to the point where a slight oscillation occurs… and little by little I cut until they are missing again (the mount in my hands not on the base)

    Who knows what may cause this nodding if all this is ok? remember the problem is seen only in one axis (Tilt )
    Does anyone know if there is any adjustment or filter that I can do or try to avoid this nodding?


    On an aerial platform is unacceptable that the solution is add more weight on the gimbal...everything aerial always points to lose weight!!
    DSC00651.jpg DSC00648.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,979
    Likes Received:
    807
    So in looking at your rig, I'm curious about the mounting. It looks like you've got both quick release rails and a Toad in the Hole. I can't see what kind of vibration isolation you have. But I would be concerned about both the CoG with that setup, as well as the level of cantilevering that might be going on with the MōVI slung at the bottom of the stack of hardware. Can you eliminate those CF rails? And what kind of vibration isolation are you using?
     
  6. Daniel Doren Huerta

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    4
    Dear Community
    After several emails and settings reviews, support response is:

    “The head of fight team replied last night with this message.

    "I have personally seen poor swimmy results with tilt settings under 20 using the GH4. I would recommend heavier lens or adding some weight to the tray to get the stiffness up to 20 or more on the tilt There is not much tilt inertia with the gh4 and a pancake lens."

    And this is what I think and what I send them…

    I am very disappointed in the response of your head of flight team and that, this MoVI problem it is not something that can be solved through better calibration or a change in values… being told that the solution is to add more weight is the same as saying that, any camera any lens, is no longer valid for Freefly M5 MoVi … For me, this was one of the main reasons of obtaining this gear instead of competition.

    I fly RC aircraft over 30 years and I think that is unacceptable that a head of flight team, tell you that the solution is to add more weight, when all in a aircraft points to the other end.

    I hope you can find another expert who can solve this issue as it should.
     
  7. Brett Harrison

    Brett Harrison Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    40
    Daniel, you'll be able to go higher than 20, and I would imagine the effect will still be there.
     
  8. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,979
    Likes Received:
    807
    Daniel, you got an answer, it was candid, acknowledged a design limitation, and offered a potential workaround. Freefly make a product that is designed to work within a specific "envelope" of variables. If you're outside that envelope, you're not going to get optimal results. It doesn't mean it won't work, it just means you're in uncharted territory.

    Have you tried what they suggested?
     
  9. Brett Harrison

    Brett Harrison Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    40

    Is that movement 'swimming' though? It seemed more like a 'bumping' to me, like the motors are in 0 stiffness momentarily.
     
  10. Daniel Doren Huerta

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    4
    Dear gentlemen,

    This are the latest developments in relation to this case...
    after my last email I received this other one:
    Daniel, I am just giving you the facts, if you can get the stiffness levels for the tilt up to around 20 you will see the nodding or swimming of the tilt to stop. We only recommend and test our MoVI's on our Cinestar line of multi rotors. Not on competitors multi rotors. Our dampening system that we used on our Cinestar multirotor reduces any vibrations that are translating down to the MoVI. With a higher tilt stiffness the motors will work harder to keep the tilt stable and reduce any oscillations that are coming from the multi rotor. Set at 11 a slight breeze or wash from the props can cause movement in the tilt. When we are flying any setup we always use a stiffness for the tilt of 20 or more to achieve the best results. This also hold true for using a MoVI handheld.
    The higher the stiffness levels you can achieve the better the MoVI will perform and stabilize.
    Thank You
    And I answer this:
    Rich
    I will try to use higher stiffness on the tilt axis. The problem is that my GH4 camera with that lens vibrates when I use a value higher than 15. So going back to facts, if all this does not work it means your motto of using any camera or any lens with Movi is untrue and I believe customers have the right to know that.
    I also have to tell you that I have a Cinestar 8 and a Cinestar 6 and I will try the MoVI in both. I will be reporting what is happening on this matter ASAP
    I will keep in touch I thank your for your efforts
    Best
    DD
     
  11. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    5,211
    Likes Received:
    460
    Daniel while not stated there are lower limits to the weight for the MoVI. Example is the mounting of an iPhone. Additional weights were required to make that mounting system work. The M10 has the same lack of weight issue. I was up at Quadrocopter with one of the early M10's. Weight was added to the hotshot mount to allow the gains to increase. You need to get the stiffness as suggested to at least a 20 value. Shouldn't take to much weight to achieve.

    Have you discussed with Adam or Jeff at QC since you are flying a Gryphon frame? Perhaps they have some experience with your combination.
     
  12. Daniel Doren Huerta

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gary,
    Thanks for your advice, I understand what you say...I have two Gryphon frame a to Cinestar frame also, My idea is to do some tests on all of them....but I am almost certain that the result does not depend on the frame I use in this case.
    Lucky for me I know Adam and Jeff very well, so if issue persists I will ask for help and advice also
    Thanks for you help.
    Best
    DD
     
  13. kjetil tønnesen

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    417
    Likes Received:
    23
    hello daniel i fly the m5 with black pocket camera and my stiffness on tilt is 10 and i have no problem with it i think
    i use a cinestar frame with echo anti vib quick realse mount and i works great
     
  14. Daniel Doren Huerta

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    4
    Hello Kjetil.
    Thanks for your comment, I also think it should not haver problems,
    I'll do the suggested tests anyway
    Best
    DD
     
  15. Brett Harrison

    Brett Harrison Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    40
    Stab in the dark Daniel, but try checking that all the connectors are in at the control box. Email support for the instructions.
     
  16. Zaid Al-Obaidi

    Zaid Al-Obaidi New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Daniel, I have been having similar issues, and ended up adding around 400g to get my stiffness to 20 ! Also I added a secondary anti vibration plate. Slight improvement but NOT a major one the downside of adding all that extra weight is fight time like you rightly stated.
    I have not had a chance to test the move again for over 4 weeks now, I am hoping to go out and re test. My settings will not be the same as yours as I use a 12/35mm lens.
    The last flight test I did, the values were
    100/78/28 and
    Gyro filter 2
    Output filter was 3

    Good luck and please keep up posted.

    Regards

    Zaidy
     

Share This Page