M5 adjustements

Discussion in 'MōVI M5' started by Ben Air, May 26, 2015.

  1. Ben Air

    Ben Air New Member

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    Hello,

    I'm using the Movi M5 in Majestic Mode with a Canon 5D Mark III + EF 16-35mm f/2,8.

    I'm currently have very good results with my M5 and I love it!

    But in simple shots where I am just walking straight ahead, I always have a slight up and down movement.
    I walk as smooth as possible when shooting but still, the result is not absolutely perfect.

    Here are my settings :

    Tuning
    Pan Stiffness130
    Roll Stiffness80
    Tilt Stiffness35

    Majestic Config
    Pan Smoothing10
    Pan Window10
    Tilt ModeMajestic Angle
    Tilt Smoothing10
    Tilt Window10

    General
    Gimbal ApplicationHandheld
    Roll Trim0,0
    Pan Trim0,0
    Max Tilt Angle70

    Min Tilt Angle-110

    Can you give me some advice, or maybe new settings, to help me?


    Thank you very much!
     
  2. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Ben do a search for "silly walk" or Monty Python on the forum. There have been numerous suggestions on how to walk. If you have any up and down movement it may show up in the resulting video. Just takes practice. Strong knees also help.
     
  3. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

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    I'm primarily an aerial MōVI user, but a few times I've done handheld work with it. The one piece of advice I have for you that's a bit counter-intuitive is that you're best to use a very light grip on the handle and only use one hand. But it's quite difficult to master the "silly walk". At the end of the day it may be impossible depending on your level of physical fitness and the angle you want to shoot. I was only ever able to get it to be acceptably smooth from very low with my arm hanging. But if you're reasonably fit and can manage it, you can definitely get good results. It just takes a lot of practice.
     
  4. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Also search the forum for "Groucho".

    Andy.
     
  5. Ben Air

    Ben Air New Member

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    Thank you very much guys! I was not familiar with this walking technique. I'm gonna start the training this week end.
    And after some research on the forum and on the Internet, I've discover that an assault riffle with a red laser aiming is the perfetct tool to practice in my house :eek:

    Too bad playing Call Of Duty doesn't help!
     
  6. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Ha! I like it. You may find the neighbours prefer you using just a laser point without the assault rifle...

    Alternatively, fill a cup to the brim with hot water and learn to walk carrying that... :)

    Andy.
     
    Brandon Loeser likes this.
  7. TJ_Sheridan

    TJ_Sheridan New Member

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    Are there any threads on the forum where people post their successful settings with specific cameras? I just got an M5 for my GH4 setup, and am getting terrible results. I've been fiddling with the settings all day, and am just not happy. Even the slowest and most gradual footsteps show dramatic pops up and down in the tilt. The yaw and roll look good, but the tilt sucks bad. Even sitting down in a chair where my body is very stable, just slowly rocking the gimbal forward and backward is not getting me a solid horizon like it should. The promotional videos show some very nice footage, and I'm not getting clean tilt at all. I did an autotune while holding the gimbal to set up majestic mode as my base, and then have tried tuning things up to where they twitch, then back off, but it doesn't matter what I do, the tilt, as with Ben Air's setup, just isn't locked in. Even with the most minor of movements, it doesn't hold the horizon steady.

    I've worked with several other gimbals like the Gremsy H14, a bunch of gopro gimbals, etc. I would expect when I drop almost $5k on a pro gimbal like this that the horizon would stay locked down. My cheap $500 legacy gimbal had a solidly locked tilt axis, and that only cost me $500, about 1/8th the price of this. But that had a horrible tilt issue where it would have horizon drive with the roll axis.
     
  8. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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  9. TJ_Sheridan

    TJ_Sheridan New Member

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    yes, I set autotune to 70%, and tuned while holding it in my hands. When I use an IS lens, I get better results, but I don't want to use an IS lens if possible. I want to use my primes so I can shoot in low light.

    But regardless, if I just hold it very still and very slightly rock it forward and back, even just a few degrees, and I'm in stable mode, not majestic follow mode, you can see the tilt rocking in the video. In other words, the tilt isn't stable like roll and pan is. Here's a video showing the two varying tests. First, I had a buddy with my same setup send me his config file, which I loaded onto mine. Same camera, same size of lens, works well for him in handheld mode. Then I did an autotune, changed it to 70% and, showed you that footage. I'd love someone to take a look and let me know that I'm not crazy, and this is pretty poor performance on the tilt access.

    TEST OF M5 with mild and agressive settings (MOVIE)
     
  10. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Thanks, TJ: I think you should email support@freeflysystems.com and send them the link to this thread (and thereby the link to your video). The video speaks for itself.

    Andy.
     
  11. TJ_Sheridan

    TJ_Sheridan New Member

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    So, after going back and forth with tech support at FreeFly and Quadrocopter.com, I learned that the M5 has a hard time with small cameras. It's a weight issue that prevents you from using higher stiffness settings. I took my GH4 off and put my Canon 5D MkII on there with my 24-105 lens, and after doing autotune was able to get stable results. Using a heavier lens on the GH4 is pretty much mandatory. They recommended the 12-35 panasonic lens, both for weight, and for the optical image stabilization feature, which would further help clean up the stability.

    While I got stable video with my heavier camera, I was shocked how crappy my 5D video looked, I've gotten so used to pristine 4K footage of the GH4. :|

    When I put the GH4 back on my M5, I tried adding two 1300mah batteries, one strapped to the top rails, one to the bottom rails. With the added weight, I was able to get stable footage with the GH4 because it allowed me to turn up my stiffness settings.

    Also, they suggested I use GPS mode for "Heading Assist" in the expert menu for outdoor walking shots and multirotor stuff.

    I also figured that keeping the lens centered around the pitch axis would help, which required a bit of adjusting on the camera position and balancing.

    So for those of you considering putting a G7 on this gimbal, I'd find a lighter gimbal. That camera has the same feature set as the GH4 (minus the frame rates above 60fps), and is quite a bit lighter and 1/3rd the price, so you'd think it'd be an ideal match, but for the M5 to shine, it needs more weight, not less. :(

    Still, I love the Majestic mode, it's intuitive and smooth. I'm super excited for the Mimic to arrive. That'll make filming far more entertaining and allow family & friends and other videographers to join in the fun (at least that's the idea - I have my fingers crossed).

    Overall, I'd say the things I miss the most about this setup (from prior use of the Gremsy H14) are the mode change button, and the rail markers. It was easy on the Gremsy to get your platform just right because the side adjustment rails had markers like a ruler. And the mode change button would let you go from locked mode to follow mode without loading up your software, pairing in bluetooth or wi-fi, and fiddling with settings). That was very handy, and I'm gonna miss that.
     
  12. TJ_Sheridan

    TJ_Sheridan New Member

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    One other note regarding Autotune, for those who are new to the gimbal.

    In the gimbal software, Autotune's percentage box is located underneath the pan/tilt/roll values. All of those axis settings can be adjusted on the fly. But because the Autotune value is under those settings, you'd assume that it was also some value that can be adjusted on the fly, but it's not.

    Autotune is a feature that simply fills in the pan/tilt/roll boxes with values. From a software design standpoint, it should be visually separated from the other values. Normally that'd go ABOVE the pan/tilt/roll values and have a line under it, or something. And the word Autotune should be an actual button. So you should be able to change the value to 70%, for example, and then hit the Autotune button.

    Having to go into a drop-down menu for that feature is silly, when the word is already right there in the interface next to the pan/roll/tilt values.

    That's something that FreeFly should consider changing in their next software update in order to improve the user experience.
     
  13. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Thanks for posting your findings, TJ.
    Andy.
     
  14. TJ_Sheridan

    TJ_Sheridan New Member

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    So I was visiting with a friend about the M5. I told him my experience with it and how it's frustrating that I have to add a ton of weight just to get the gimbal to behave, and he said that's not right. When doing risky shots with his aerial rig he'll sometimes pull off his GH4 with the nice lens and put a simple GoPro on the M5. He says he has no problem getting it to balance or hold level with nothing but a GoPro.

    I'm adding four GoPro cameras worth of weight to my gimbal just to get decent pitch hold. But if others don't have to do that, then that means there's definitely something wrong with my gimbal. I would really rather NOT fly with all that added weight.

    FreeFly gave me a set of reset instructions to follow. It resets the motor calibration or something. I'm going to try that first, then if I can't get it to work, I'm going to have to ask for a replacement gimbal, or send it in to FreeFly for servicing. I don't want to get stuck with a dud, not at this price. I'd like my gimbal to be able to handle a light camera like the G7 without adding weight.

    Anybody here disagree with that? Are there others who have no problem with light cameras? I'd love some input. I was going to be taking this gimbal out on a shoot next week, but I may have to cancel or ask for a postponement the contract in order to get this worked out. I don't want to go put it to use in the field if I'm going to be sending it back.
     

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