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Discussion in 'MōVI M15' started by Aaranyan Ramanujam, Sep 12, 2014.
Where can you find that price? Freefly price is $8k.
Doh, you are right. Im clearly not seeing straight due to all the red mist. Apologies.
It's ok! This is a rough day for all of us (some more so than others!).
So is this M15 6K and two week upgrade possibility only available for pre-order customers? I purchased mine on Jan 30 this year so I am not eligible? Did the pre-order customers get a mail about this?
I did indeed get an email about this yesterday at some stage and yes it looks like the 6k is only available to those who pre-ordered and just for two and a half weeks.
Just posted this over at Reduser, but I'll repeat it here.
I was in the first 50 orders for the M10 and I'm not upset at all, in fact it's a better deal than the upgrade was. Here's my reasoning:
- I was the first in my region to have a Movi, and it's paid for itself more than twice over. I've done some really fun projects with it (Nike, NY Knicks, more) and it's allowed me to grow my business.
- The M15 will cost $12k, but I can get one today at $6k because I'm an early adopter. 50% discount is huge.
- I can likely sell my M10 for around $6k even with the price drop, meaning the M15 upgrade is a wash for me. It's even better than paying $3k for an upgrade. Even if you sold your M10 for $3k (I'm sure plenty of folks would jump on that price), you would end up in the same situation as the original upgrade offering.
That said, I know a guy that bought an M5 about 4 weeks ago and I definitely understand if he's not happy. But hey, there will always be price drops and new technology, especially in our industry, and you will ALWAYS buy something right before something better or cheaper comes out. That's just how it works. If you let it kick you in the nuts every time it happens, you'll spend a lot of time on the ground in the fetal position and less time working and making money.
I don't see how this is "disrespectful" to early adopters. To me, it's an elegant solution to what is, at the end of the day, a business that needs to make money.
This is a complete Rip off for early adopters. I agree the initial product has already paid for itself but it is quite disappointing to see that the early adopters have no option to "upgrade" rather than buying another gimbal. As for myself i am not a rental house so i have not much need for another gimbal. So, what then? This is really disappointing for those who operate independently. I have to agree with Aaranyan on this one. I remember you calling me a while ago and enquiring about the Ronin...i said it was not that lucrative... ITAKE THAT BACK NOW. If it is another gimbal that i would have to get... i am indeed going the RONIN route for now. Freefly needs to get its head straight.
Well, i have to partly agree…. I understand that the price-change had to come one day to cover up with competitors, that´s the normal route in the film industry (well except of ARRI).. What i´m really pissed of is only the non-existent upgrade route, and i think that Freefly has to work that out. I´m also a small business owner, making about 80% of my jobs with the M-10 since february.In Europe, specially in germany we have a very different film industry than you in the states and it´s a lot of harder here to use and establish new technology. so i´m quite proud that i found my place and was one of the first trying to use the M-10 in "real" shooting situations. I planned with the 3.000,00 € for the upgrade, and now i would need another 3.000,00 € in about two weeks, which is impossible for me. So i would have to pay 11.000,00 € after 01. of october which is even more impossible for me. So no M-15 for me at all, which is very frustrating. The upgrade-path is a must if Freefly wouldn´t want to loose many of their early adopters… or give us more time..
I will talk to them on sunday in Amsterdam...
Clearly the motive of this announcement is to sell more units at the cost of customers with the only option being to buy another Movi. It is disgusting!
I though Freefly was a smart and honest company that did have their customers in mind but it is clear they have mislead their highest paying customers. I could have purchase 10 Ronins for what I paid for my two M10s.
Pretty lame Freefly.
I hope you rethink what you are doing.
I have to agree, not the best way to treat early customers... A bit disappointing.
Yes, we could just buy an M15 at the discounted price and then sell the used M10 for a similar price. But I'm a bit concerned that if everyone does that, the used market will quickly be flooded with Movi M10s for sale and it will become difficult to sell them at a reasonable price.
Plus, why such a short window ? I was hoping I could upgrade to an M15 later, when I'd feel the need for it. Now if I want to do it, it's in the next couple of weeks, or never. Because my M10 just lost half of its resale value, and the M15 offer only lasts for 2 weeks.
Honesty, when I pre-ordered an M10 (and waited many months for it), I knew I was buying an expensive piece of kit, I knew prices would eventually go down as other cheaper gimbals would hit the market. No big surprise here.
But I thought Freefly would at least have our backs as early customers, as Red did before with those who pre-ordered a Red One. How about a trade-in offer, or an upgrade as initially promised ? Most of us don't need a second gimbal ! And please, not something we have to order in the next 2 weeks, maybe not everybody has that cash to spend right now. At least give us a few months !
We don't even have all the details yet... Will it fit in the case I bought for my M10 ? What exactly are the improvements compared to the M10 ? Are the motors different ? The sensors ? Does it come with the same accessories than the M10, which remote, etc... ?
This sounds a bit rushed, really...
Can someone from Freefly pls pitch in and clarify or give us an update ? Can there be an option to either upgrade for $3k or buy an new M15 for $6k . also what is the rationale behind setting a deadline of sep 30th ? Kindly have it extended.
I don't own a Freefly gimbal, but I've been reading these threads with interest. You always pay up for the first, and most revolutionary. The Movi is the standard, they developed and implemented a solution. You had to decide to buy. Competition, and price drops are inevitable. As a hobbyist, who likes to "fiddle", I'm flying a RCTimer Legacy gimbal, with an Alexmos 32-bit controller, $650 total, and heck of alot of tuning.
I have owned alot of businesses, pretty successful, but still very frugal. I still recall buying a 3 Meg (yes Meg) hard drive, in 1985, for $3000. Technology changes fast, sometimes it makes your head spin.
I thought the Movi gimbals were over priced. I even contemplated competition, my son has his Masters in Electrical Engineering, with a specialty in Control Theory. I asked him if he could write the self tuning PID software, "yea but I don't have time, and I hate writing the front end GUI".
My point is that it is not the hardware you are paying for when you are " first in", but the development, and innovation. Now we have another problem, price too high, get greedy, get competition, have to drop prices fast, and alienate your core users. Freefly sponsors this forum, which I like, esp for the up to date Cinestar and Mikrokopter answers. Personally I think they over charge for just about everything, and I won't pay it, but I'm not competing in the filming market either.
Sorry you guys feel burned though. I sure don't blame you. As I tell my customers, you vote with your dollars. I'm voting DJI after my recent treatment by Quadrocopter!
Yes, i totally agree to Wolf Schiebels post (and to most of the others)!
Wolf, could you please keep us updated about what Freefly told to you at Amsterdam.
i had some nice talks with Justin and Sam yesterday and also spoke to David, the new sales director.
They all promised to take our concerns seriously and bring them back to headquarters after the fair.
So i guess there will be internal talks and then hopefully some new decisions, especially for the time frame of the M-15 offer.
The motors and sensors of the M-15 are basically the same as M-10, but the construction and overall handling is much more improved and more rugged.
I also had the chance to opick up a Ronin and it´s not comparable at all. IT is neat and seems well constructed at the first sight, but when you operate it, it is not only the weight that is an issue but also the moves that are not really nice (more "robotic"). I won´t buy it because it won´t feel safe when working in the daily route on set.
From what Wolf head in Amsterdam reagding the motors of m15, if they are the same as m10, why can it handle more weight, that does´t really make sense to me, if mortors are the same they should be able to carry to same weight, is it just me that are not getting it or can the m10 actually carry more weight than they say it can ? Any one know more about this ?
Well... no warranties, but i had about 8 kgs on the M-10, shooting 24 days. (Epic/Cooke S4/Bebob V140/Filters).
It works if you know the limits, but Freefly has to set a limit which they can take warranties for..
whoooa that is really pricey for structural upgrade.LOL got a feeling if this is out of some folk's price range, i guess they could just mod the rods and wire connectors to get their m10 to work within the m15 capability.
simon's question. it's the longer rods that allow centered leverage of bulkier (not necessary heavier) camera setups.
Charles, that is not true. The M-15 is way more advanced in structrural design and much more rugged than the M-10. they are not comparable from their look and feel/handling. Trust me it's really a pain in the ass to rig an M-10 up like i did and sometimes hlstill have to do. This is much easier with the 15. So it' s a good investion if you work with larger and heavier setups.
Hey Wolf thanks for getting back with info. What if you don´t want to go with larger or heavier camera´s. I think my rig is more than heavy enough for me when it is fully rigged with c300, follow focus and so on. i also don´t really want it to bigger or heavier without camera, i know it´s not a lot bigger, so that´s the down side for with m15, but i would love to have the cage, double handle bar in the top and be able to invert it, still worth to upgrade, that´s the questions i have been asking myself the last couple of day´s.
Wolf it seems like you have had the chance to work with the m15 ? does it feel bigger and more heavy when you have it your hands ?
Wolf, did the M10 on display at the show have the new cage and improved structural elements?