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M10 with open door helicopter

Discussion in 'MōVI M10' started by Chad Lancaster, Sep 11, 2013.

  1. Chad Lancaster

    Chad Lancaster New Member

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    Thinking about using a m10 for several aerial shots on a film I'm working on. It would be open door on a Robinson R44 or R66. Would it better to..

    -handhold the system
    -handhold the system and take some weight off from a bungee cord from above
    -build some type of stand similar to this
    [​IMG]

    thanks

    Chad
     
  2. Austin Glass

    Austin Glass Active Member

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    I'm just guessing, but I think you would be successful with either hand-holding or using some kind of simple suspension (either way, utilize safety cable). You certainly would see an advantage to a larger mount, but at altitude, I'm not sure the extra trouble would be worth it. I'd think considering your distance from subject would mean most of the translation problems wouldn't be noticeable.

    But this is all coming from a guy that's never flown a MOVI in a helicopter… :(
     
  3. Chad Lancaster

    Chad Lancaster New Member

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    Ya i'm planning on using the Shotover or GSS C520 system for shots that require looking down or straight ahead. I would think that using a stand with the m10 would add more vibrations, but I'm not familiar with helicopter mounts.
     
  4. Wolfgang Armin

    Wolfgang Armin Active Member

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    I don´t have any idea, but depending on your type of shot, there can be heavy winds in an open helicopter, especially when leaning forward a bit when handheld. I don´t know yet how strong the motors of the MoVi (esp the pan) are and if they can resist high wind speeds. I´d ask Tabb. Multirotors aren´t that fast, and have different mounting so you can´t compare that either I guess.
     
  5. Erik Ronald

    Erik Ronald Member

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    I would consider approaching this in the mindset of mounting it to a multirotor. If you have the resources, build a small stand for the top handle to attach to and make sure to implement some vibration dampening. Then you will have the gimbal controls readily available through a TX/RX much as you would if it were hard mounted to the bottom of a MR and would not need to hold the camera rig. The flaw in all of these handheld brushless gimbals is the motion from being held, so if you can take that out of the equation, your footage will be smoother. Your arms will thank you for it as well :)
     
  6. Brad Meier

    Brad Meier Active Member
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    Multicopters I would estimate dont go over 40 mph. Outside of the copter, in the slipstream, you will probably see some issues due to the wind forces on the rig.
     
  7. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    If you watch the Vincent LaForet BTS video you can see how they used the MōVI on the helicopter.

     
  8. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Chad there was some discussion at the MoVI training class. Best to hand hold, make sure the camera op is secured to the aircraft, some type of so ferry cable to the MoVI. If possible stay inside the cabin so that you aren't buffeted by the rotor wash.

    In your phot it's a pretty good setup but the lens is still in the downwash.

    Make sure the camera op keeps the MoVI away from his body so that he doesn't bump it with their chest spoiling a shot.

    Last resort see the MoVI BTS movie with Tabb attached and out on the struts.
     
  9. Chad Lancaster

    Chad Lancaster New Member

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    Thanks for the info. is there going to be more training classes? From what I've heard it seemed very helpful for people starting to get a grasp on their setup. I'm looking to get one as soon as I get my unimog sold. Thanks
     
  10. Andrew Griffiths

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    We've used the Movi onboard choppers. Amongst other things you'll want to consider your heli type. For example you'll struggle to position yourself and the Movi in the back seat of an R44. Better off in the front seat, making sure you keep it well clear of the slip stream and out of the pilots way. Better to have an AS-350, EC120/30 or similar with large open door... the trade off being slip stream and wind buffeting near the large opening. I've tried several configurations and the Movi just can't seem to handle a slip stream beyond 30 knots (factoring in additional downwash and buffeting from the opening). If there's any hint of slip stream I find I can get better results using the Tyler mount.
     
  11. Michael Elsegood

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    Hi Andrew,

    Just wondering how the MōVI behaves when it is out in the slipstream above 30 knots - Do the motors simply give up, or flutter, or does the stabilisation shut down?

    Do you think this would damage any of the MōVI mechanics, or is it more like the motors get to a threshold of stress and turn themselves off to avoid damage?
     
  12. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Michael maybe Tabb will see this and respond. He did a bunch of shooting on one of Vincent LaForet's short films hanging outside a chopper. You won't hurt the MōVI motors. You've just reached a point where they can't compensate.
     
  13. Andrew Griffiths

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    That's correct, we did not experience a total failure. The first sign will be jitters, brought about by wind overcoming motors and then eventually the motors will be completely overcome and the wind will do what it wants with the camera. We did not go beyond the point of camera jitter (@ 30knots) since at this point the footage was already unusable.
     
  14. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    You just override the "magnetic lock" exerted by the motors, no damage at all to them. Because the MōVI knows where the axes should be and can sense where they are, it will recover and move the gimbal back.

    Andy.
     
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  15. Michael Elsegood

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    Thanks Andrew & Andy,

    I experimented yesterday out of the side of an R44 with mixed results. It behaved exactly how you have described here. The odd thing for me was that when we got to the "jitter" part, vibration was very evident in the tilt but pan was rock solid still.

    I think if there is a way of getting a clear shot of your subject without having to get the MōVI rig out in the slip stream, this could be a very useful for shooting out of cheaper choppers.

    FYI, we were shooting on the Blackmagic Cinema Camera with 16-35mm EF in dual operator mode. MōVI shooting out of the rear right door, MōVI gimbal controller sitting in left rear seat with Spektrum controls.
     
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  16. daniel hurst

    daniel hurst New Member

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    I have experimented shooting the M10 out of a R44, as mentioned above, the back seat door is really too tight to fit the width of the rig. I found that with any type of G's the movi would loose level on the horizon, sometimes it would recover, but a couple times it could not recover. We would have to land and get out to re-calibrate. My experience was limited to 2 test flights and I decided that it was not going to be reliable enough to use for a job.

    Besides the issues shooting from the heli, I have been really happy with the movi
     
  17. Graydon Tranquilla

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    Last time I saw someone doing Aerial video from a manned Heli, the videographer was standing on the port side skid with his camera in hand but had a safety harness. That was done at around 11,000 feet ASL shooting the top of a snow capped peak. We were setting up our HangGliders for takeoff at the peak.
     
  18. Andrew Griffiths

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    Cold and WINDY out here :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Cam Batten

    Cam Batten Member

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    I did some shooting from a Jet Ranger last week and found the best for me was to sit as far within the rear cabin as possible to avoid prop wash, and point outside the open door (I was pretty much in the left/middle seat, shooting out the right hand door). We were travelling mostly between 70-110km/hr chasing a hang glider. I also spent some time in a dragonfly microlite at the same speed and found that to be an ideal aircraft for shooting from.

    Clip here -

    http://www.redbull.com/au/en/advent...ny-durand-boomerang-one-day-two-world-records
     
  20. Michael Elsegood

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    Hi cam

    Awesome stuff.

    Did you have any trouble with the MoVi shutting down or was it pretty solid throughout the flight?

    What was your camera setup?

    I'm doing some more testing with a squirrel (a-star) next week and would love to hear more about your experiences.

    Coincidently I'm in Perth - are you a local here or just shooting here for this film?
     

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