M10 small industry rental rate?

Discussion in 'MōVI M10' started by Jim Dahl, Aug 1, 2013.

  1. Jim Dahl

    Jim Dahl New Member

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    Hey future M10 owners, I was curious what everyone will be renting the M10 for? I've been leaning towards $500/day for the unit + 2 operators (~$800) for a total of about $1,300/day. What have you guys been thinking?

    -Jim
     
  2. Austin Glass

    Austin Glass Active Member

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    I'm a little confused by your wording… what exactly do you get for $500, and what for $1300? I interpret it like this, correct me if I'm wrong:

    $500 - unit
    $1300 - for unit plus two operators

    That makes sense. I think a lot of where I settle on pricing wise will depend on my location and how many of these things are in town and available.
     
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  3. Lliam Worthington

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    Good thread Jim. What Austin said, but Id been musing something like:

    * MOVI Base Kit --
    Includes: MOVI + Remote control for wireless pan and tilt operation. $600 per day - $2,400 per week

    * MOVI Pro kit --
    Includes: MOVI, remote control, wireless follow focus system, wireless HD SDI monitoring -- $850 per day, $3,400 per week

    Ops, I was thinking the same rate @ $400 for an 8 hour day with package hire - offering up to a 3 man team for full production mode. One op, one on remote, and one on focus.

    A friend of mine is a Writer/Director who is working with Vincent on a project and had the good fortune to spend some time with the MOVI yesterday (was great - I just spent the whole day inundating him with questions :)) anyway, had this to say to me (and he was previously far less excited about it than I have been)

    "It's better than I thought, heaps better. Way more advanced than I gave it credit for. The price tag makes sense now. In fact it even feels low."

    He's not a guy inclined to hype. Hard not to get excited. :)
     
  4. Austin Glass

    Austin Glass Active Member

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    Those prices seem reasonable. I have been expecting to negotiate a slightly lower rate for myself, considering I'm a "hope for the best, plan for the worst" kind of guy. I live in the Seattle area (Redmond, to be precise) and I just don't know how many units are going to crop up around here. If there is more supply than demand, then I'll have to drop prices. Hopefully there are only a few of us operators in this area.

    I've seen some day rates posted around $200 for the complete MoVI kit (no FF, no monitoring), which I think is much too low. Hopefully no one in my neighborhood tries that kind of rate. My hope as an O/O is to make up a lot of the income as an op.
     
  5. Jeff Cook

    Jeff Cook Member

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    When setting rates keep in mind that it's easier to negotiate your rate down then it is to increase it.

    With no track record it may be a while before a good average rental/crew rate is established. And owner/operators will be different from regular rental houses. My best guess, as a starting point, is in the +/-$500 range for the basic kit.

    I believe what's going to make the MoVI successful Is the owner/operators because, trust me, there will be an educational process with producers, directors and DP's on just how to best utilize this tool. I think those who just rent one without any experience, will quickly get frustrated trying to balance in camera and setup the connections, (Follow Focus, Video Link, Etc.), with the pressure of a production deadline. The true value will be that intimate knowledge the owner/op will have.
     
  6. Andrew Griffiths

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  7. Paul conto

    Paul conto Member

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    Andrew very VERY good read. I have a question to ask though. For someone like me who is currently doing this as a side job, currently in the military but when i retire in a few years i want to do this full time, should i already be punching in numbers that i will need in retirement. Or should i go low and build up as equipment builds up and my need for that income increases.
     
  8. Andrew Griffiths

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    Hi Paul, all good points. I guess it comes down to the cost of running your business, which would include your current and future equipment expenditure. Most people don't consider the total cost of running a business, and that includes clients.

    I've seen camera operators who come in thinking they'll make a few bucks by charging a minimal fee, but they do not taking into consideration COB. They never last long and devalue the industry for those of us who are in it for the long run.
     
  9. Scott Stemm

    Scott Stemm Member

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    Paul be careful going low. Once low people know you are the cheap operator and puts them inn the better position of negotiating. "Last year you charged us $5 what changed that its $12 this year?" What Andrew says is very sound advised. Figure out what it costs to do business and charge appropriately. Even part time has expenses and will come close to you or more than working full time. Cost of materials working part time will be more as you are dividing the costs over fewer jobs than working full time over more jobs.

    Also would like to thank you for your service
     
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  10. Paul conto

    Paul conto Member

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    Thank you scott, I'm about to run into that issue soon as I did a job earlier in the year for project mud and they want to use me again this fall when they come back to hampton roads. However after doing some thinking and readjusting of my pricing if they want me for the same amount of time it would be almost double what i charged last time. Maybe i can spin it because I'll be flying alot better quality cameras this time, RED of BM vs GoPro3 i used last time and insurance going up, actually finally getting it since Im going to file a LLC so i can actually get this legitimized and insurance that way.
     
  11. Jose Luis Ocejo

    Jose Luis Ocejo Active Member

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    Another thing to consider, is the industry has to get to know the Movi first, producers, directors ,DP,'s have to fall in love with it too, I remember when Sliders came out it took some time before they started to be a common item on gear wish lists, I think at first selling the fact that it needs 2 operators, probably will not fly very well with producers, I also think that its not like a Steadicam where a trained steadicam op is a must, in a way a Movi can be operated by pretty much any one with framing skills, and a good back, I would market and price more like rental for the Movi, rental of a camera that is all ready balance on the Movi, (no waiting on set to strip the camera down from all the regular shooting stuff) then install it on the Movi add other stuff, balance etc,
    rental of a wireless follow focus, rental for your own HD transmitter
    you want the Movi to be ready to shoot almost immediately if possible of course its unfair but they many times AD or Directors don want to wait for the camera dept !!
    and last a special Movi operator fee to pan and tilt from the wireless RC transmitter not alot of people know or are familiar with the RC sticks let the DP or other operator on set operate the shot they are going to ask you that any way.
    The thing is to be attractive to producers budgets and of course to directors and DP's
    I TOTALY agree dont sell it cheap just to get the job, it will bite you and everybody else back very soon.
    I would also argue that it doesn't replace a Steadicam it does things differently and in many situations uniquely
     
  12. Phil Macdonald

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    I totally agree with the sentiment of not selling it cheap yet at the same time totally agree that I think it will be difficult to persuade producers that you need to spend a fortune on the kit and then also hire you at your full day rate. Even though I don't think it will be nearly as easy to set up and run through rental houses as producers think it is certainly easier than a Stedicam so the essence is that if you want to run as an owner operator you have to follow the market rates set by kit houses. I agree there is a Cost of Business but at the same time there is also a market value....if you decide that you need to earn £700 a day to 'break even' for X number of days work a year but the market value for the rental is £300 then im afraid you can chat all you like about cost of business but noone is going to hire you :) It will be a case of working out how to increase the value of X rather than demanding £700 because thats how much you need to survive.
     
  13. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Phil why do you think it will be easier than a Steadicam? Sure you can have one person do it all but the best videos, or at least the ones where there is lots going on have the carrier, someone controlling the camera movement and many times someone pulling focus. It will be interesting to see how all of this will play out in the coming weeks and months as the units get into the field. Would be interested to hear from folks that were there in the early days of the first Steadicams coming out when they were a total unknown.
     
  14. Phil Macdonald

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    Gary, I don't think I explained myself very well. I think producers will think it is miles easier than a stedicam and because once its setup in theory anyone can hold the MoVI and DoP's will want to be on the sticks and they will get something that is 7/10 I think....whereas with a stedicam that takes years to master. What I do think will happen is that for the truly awesome and as such complex shots experience will play a part and I think it is down to producers and DoP's to understand that, like with the stedicam now to release control and let the people associated with the MoVI get that shot you are looking for. I have said before that the key to all these shots is communication between MoVI op and Gimbal op, without that you will end up chopping peoples heads off and panning too far left and right as you both try and do the same thing!!

    Being totally blunt I really don't want it to be easy enough to the point that anyone can just pick it up and run around with it getting awesome footage because that totally takes the necessity of me being there out of the equation!! :)

    I am really looking forward to seeing the influx of video's on vimeo of people trying out new shots come August 15th and think we need to stick together as a community, not undersell the product and although it is cheaper than a comparable stedicam setup not slash the prices for the same kind of footage!!

    I am just really curious as to what rental houses will charge as to a certain extent that will have a huge impact on the day rates we can charge as owner operators/companies.

    Phil
     
  15. Jason Macalpine

    Jason Macalpine New Member

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    Does anyone have a M10 available for rent in LA at all yet? If so I would love to get in contact about possible rentals.
     
  16. Phil Macdonald

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    As far as I'm aware Jason no one will have an M10 yet that they can rent you as they haven't started shipping. This will start on the 15th August but you may be able to get quotes from LA based owners/companies who may be able to give you a quote for an upcoming job. If that is the case I for one would be curious the rates that they are asking for so I can get an idea of the expected market value once they come onto the scene :)
     
  17. Chuy Valadez

    Chuy Valadez New Member

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    Folks,

    I think we should follow the lead of the drone operators over in their forum and have this discussion as a private conversation. They pointed out over there that the regular forum is searchable and anyone can come on here and see the intimate details about pricing from the service providers (MoVi owners/operators) and use it against us during negotiations.
     
  18. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    If you want to start a conversation by invitation only let me know and I will start it and add members as required.

    And Chuy they are NOT drones. :) UAV, Multi-rotor, Multi-copter but never the dreaded five letter word.
     
  19. Austin Glass

    Austin Glass Active Member

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    It's not a bad idea, honestly. I can see how this information would be most useful if kept relatively private. If others are in agreement, I'm up for having this conversation privately and then deleting this thread. Or is there a way to make this thread private without starting over?
     
  20. Chuy Valadez

    Chuy Valadez New Member

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    Gary,

    My apologies for the "D" word faux-pas. I'll roll with "Multi-copter". Hard consonant sounds strike fear into the un-informed and that's always a good thing when negotiating rates. :)

    I'd like to start a conversation by invitation only. Thanks for the offer. Additionally, is it possible to delete what's been discussed per Austin's suggestion?

    Chuy
     

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