M10 Roll bar listing issue while panning rig

Discussion in 'MōVI M10' started by George Russell, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. George Russell

    George Russell New Member

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    Hello. I have been searching in forum trying to find similar issue with my M10's ROLL BAR and why it is listing in direct sync with my panning in Majestic mode.
    I have had this issue before while properly mounting a 5D Mk III & lens only (no wireless FF motor).
    Seems this listing motion happens after the unit is working well and giving a perfect horizon. Then, after about 7- minutes the Roll will slowly list to either side.

    I recheck my connection points, properly balance all 3 axis, and adjust my parameters just shy of the vibrations, press Write Config. then does this listing (sometimes it is fine after turning the gimbal on and off).
    If it starts to list, I adjust my Roll Trim to extreme opposite direction and the matter seems to get solved, but only temporarily, then it .

    My settings:
    License and Calibrated on Oct. 11, 2013. Config. App. Ver. 1.552 Firmware: 3.01
    Pan Stiffness: 80
    Roll Stiffness: 35
    Tilt Stiffness: 12

    Chart Reads
    Motor Tilt: 0~+2%
    Motor Roll: -2 ~ -1%
    Motor Pan: +1~3%

    Really do appreciate any thought on this matter and hope this will help others with similar issue.
    Much thanks! George
     
  2. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    George send a note to support@freeflysystems.com. They may suggest using some of the less used menu items. Best to start a conversation with them.
     
  3. George Russell

    George Russell New Member

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    Much thanks for you quick reply! Yes, I just started a support ticket with FreeFly now.
     
  4. Brett Harrison

    Brett Harrison Active Member

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    I defer to the technical support team, but my best guess is a fastener issue: check that all screws are tight. Any misalignment in the right angles of the rig, or the balance of the payload, that develop after calibration, will 'drag' on the motors if you will. Complicating matters it's possible to mask slight discrepancies like this by compensating for it in other axes, like moving the camera balance, or rotating the alignment of the bars past a 90 degree point. This is why it's important to go through all the tuning stages a few times. And do visual checks all around the rig to look for bar misalignment.
     
  5. George Russell

    George Russell New Member

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    Hi Brett, yes Chris of tech support kindly suggested that in order to reach a diagnosis, I am to reset to Factory Settings and Restore Factory Cal. The parameters are now Pan=10, Roll=10, Tilt=5. Then I was asked to take screen grabs of my Motor Percentage and the General Chart screens. I am awaiting the next steps on that.
    Regarding the rig's potential alignment, I noticed that if the vertical tube (where the CPU and on/off switch is attached) is even slightly off its 90 degree angle, it could unbalance the Pan. Good points Brett1
     
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  6. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    George the pan drop tube is commonly not 90 degrees. Watch the M10 balance videos and you will see that the pan axis is a two step process. One sliding the pan knuckle front to back and the other rotating around the pan tube. When you have been doing the balancing have you been doing both steps?
     
  7. George Russell

    George Russell New Member

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    Hi Gary, thanks, I just replayed that Tabb's Pan Balance video tutorial now. You are correct, I finally noticed him perform a slight rotation of that Pan drop tube. Thanks for pointing this out (wished that there were CU inserts on some of these vids).
    BTW, I did perform Default Settings as well as Restore Factory Cal. And I gotta say that I am currently not seeing any of my prior "listing of the Roll bars as I pan right or left in Majestic Mode issue" any longer.

    The factory default Tuning adjustments is Pan Stiffness: 10, Roll Stiffness: 10, Tilt Stiffness: 5. I have always cranked up my incremental adjustments until the rig oscillated then back down a lot until not vibrations. This lead to settings near 40-50 for Pan Axis and near 70-100 for Roll (although Tilt has usually been under 20 for most cameras).
    However, now that my settings are 10 and under for all axis, that listing issue is no longer...for now.

    In conclusion, seems to me that my Tuning Increments were quite high and that I might wanna Decrease a bit more after the vibration stops.
     
  8. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    George when you do the stiffness settings start with tilt, then roll and finally pan. And if you want the best results while shooting tune it the same way you are going to shoot. If you are going to shoot holding the center handle with one hand you will have different settings than holding with two hands. The defaults are really just to stabilize the rig. If they were 0,0,0 then it would tend to flop with any movement (motors not running). Also for most setups the settings go from low to high for tilt, roll, pan. Tilt the lowest and pan the highest.
     
  9. Brett Harrison

    Brett Harrison Active Member

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    Also be sure that the rotation of the rig upon the pan drop tube is in alignment (I.e. facing perpendicular to the handle's main, longest tube (the one for the side handles). It's not in the videos but I found on someone's rig that the bolts we're loose and it could move around when operating vigorously with a heavy payload. Only slight misalignment makes a big difference.
     
  10. alec_caton

    alec_caton New Member

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    Hi guys,

    This is an interesting read as I have been experiencing the same issues with our MoVI while in Dual Operator on our Cinestar. I've been having the issue for sometime now, originally I put this down to a faulty battery but as the problem persisted I did the same, resetting factory settings and restoring factory calibration. Before this the calibration settings were pretty low, after the reset and updating the Firmware to 3.07 I found the calibration settings were much higher (similar to George Russell's settings at the start of this thread - Canon 5D MkII) however the problem persists. I noticed if I adjusted the Roll Trim to the opposite extreme to rectify the horizon it would then start to list the roll the opposite way (that of which the Trim had been adjusted to) it's almost like it is slow to react to keeping the roll accurate. I have the roll calibrated to its maximum as any more creates oscillation while in flight

    I have recently updated the Firmware to 3.08 and the problem is apparent on every flight we do now, to the point where when the camera is moved into a 'birds eye' position one of the legs of the MoVI is in shot because the roll has listed considerably. It's been an on going problem that I find while flying the MoVI.

    Any advice would be much appreciated. I'm going to do a full factory reset again and start from scratch and hopefully this will shed some light but if there's something I've missed let me know. Also a couple of other issues I'm having now are that the 3.07 Firmware update which rectified the MoVI switching to Majestic if signal was momentarily lost has not appeared to work on our rig. Is there something I have to input and write to the MoVI for this to work? And also, since further updating to Firmware 3.08 the bluetooth binding of the MoVI to the tablet is almost non existent and takes a dozen or so attempts to connect. Just thought I'd throw them into the mix as well!! :)

    Cheers!
     
  11. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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  12. alec_caton

    alec_caton New Member

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    Hi Gary,
    Sorry about the delay. I haven't contacted support about the roll drift but the unit did go in for a service and the problem has still been there. I've been a lot more methodical with our flights now. I will replace the battery when it is reading about 75% and between each flight I'll do a full break down and balance, this helps significantly however I'm still finding the horizon level a little 'sway-like'. It can be a bit of problem when we're flowing a subject and as we do one of those 'cinematic' raises to the skyline the horizon does not sit level or sways back and forth.

    I've been looking into the new 'stiffness' settings in the GUI, is this something that could help make it more solid? Also I'd be interested to know if anyone else is suffering similar 'interference' with the Movi - This is a new thing we get. I've tried to attach a video of the issue which appears to have replaced the Movi switching to Majestic and resetting the tilt angle but I was wondering if this was to be expected.

    I've got to say though - regardless of some of these issues, the results we're getting are pretty amazing. Just bought an M5 to add to the arsenal which is just boss!
     
  13. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Alec you should still enter a ticket with support. It should not be drifting. Getting the stiffness settings as high as possible will help.
     
  14. alec_caton

    alec_caton New Member

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    Thanks Gary, I'll get in contact with support now. On another note, the M5 has arrived - what is the SD Card slot for? Would this be for the 'shot recorder' initially proposed with the MoVI? I'm looking to somehow record the IMU data from the MoVI while the camera is recording.
     
  15. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Alec t is not currently used.
     

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