M10 Blackmagic Pocket Camera. Lots of jiggling

Discussion in 'MōVI M10' started by Tom Hannen, Feb 21, 2014.

  1. Tom Hannen

    Tom Hannen New Member

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    Hi,
    We've received a M10, and we're using a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera with a 14mm Lumix lens on it.
    The whole setup is very light, and I'm wondering whether that's why we're getting so much walking motion in our shots.
    Video:

    Password is movi


    I think I've balanced it reasonably well...
    Image is here:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6envSV_9oIpcDN3NkJrMTMwWnc/edit?usp=sharing

    Settings are shown below. Many thanks for any tips to reduce vertical translation of movement, beyond "hold it like a full cup of hot coffee"!

    Tuning
    Pan Stiffness 10
    Roll stiffness 10
    Tilt stiffness 5

    Majestic Config
    Pan smoothing 10
    Pan Window 10
    Tilt mode = Smooth Lock (tried majestic angle too)
    Tilt smoothing 10
    Tilt window 5

    General
    Gimbal application = Handheld
    Rolltrim 0
    Max Tilt angle 70
    Min Tilt Angle -110

    Remote Operator Config
    Pan Joystick smoothing 5
    Pan Joystick Expo 10
    Pan Joystick Window 8
    Tilt Joystick Smoothing 5
    Tilt Joystick Expo 10
    Tilt Joystick Window 8
    Pan/Tilt Remote Speed Adjustment = Independent

    Remote controller type = DSM2 2048
    Map Remote Mode = 6
    Map Remote Pan = -2
    Map Remote Pan Rate = 1
    Map Remote Tilt = -3
    Map remote Tilt Rate = -7
    Map remote Roll Trim =-4


    Expert
    Gyro filter = 5
    Output Filter = 5
     
  2. Wolfgang Armin

    Wolfgang Armin Active Member

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    Tom, that almost looks like handheld.
    The stiffness is really low. Did you ever try to get it higher up?
    I´ve tried it with a Sony NEX5 which should weigh even less, and my settings were pretty much the same as my settings for the 5DIII.
     
  3. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Also, are you doing a "glide walk" (like Groucho Marx) or walking normally -- you need to do the glide walk to eliminate as much vertical motion as you can. The MōVI can obviously keep the camera trained on talent by tilt, roll and yaw, but it cannot remove vertical motion of the MōVI -- and that's especially apparent when you walk normally and are in a corridor or have objects passing by close to the camera.

    Andy.
     
  4. Paul Watt

    Paul Watt Member

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    Yeah, it's way more than not walking smoothly. It's rolling back and forth for some reason. Tilt stiffness should be a bit higher, and roll and pan should be way way higher. With a GH2 and it's kit lens, I found it to be about 7 on tilt, 40 or so on roll, and 70 ish on pan. Maybe moving up the settings, while holding on to the rig firmly to prevent oscillation would help?
     
  5. Justin Marx

    Justin Marx Active Member

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    Hey Tom,

    It seems to me by your picture that it's not balanced properly.. The camera looks way to low to be balanced.. That camera is so light that I would expect it to be 1/2 the distance higher. "Tilt vertical CG" is off

    That alone could really effect your settings..

    Just as a quick test-- with the Movi off, use your hand to tilt the camera up to the sky-- does it stay or flop back down? Do the same down to the ground-- If it doesn't stay your off balance..

    Make sure you watch each video that freefly has on their site regarding balance and setup (http://www.freeflysystems.com/media/tutorials.php)

    The key to great footage is the best balance..

    If your still having issues and have achieved balance (anywhere you move the camera while Movi is off it stays) let me know and I can chat with you.
     
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  6. Justin Marx

    Justin Marx Active Member

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    Looking again at your picture -- your pan balance is way off as well.. The pan bar should be level..
     
  7. Richard MacDonald

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    Per the MoVI class we took a few week back in NYC, the BMPCC is too light for the MoVI 10. Cameras do need a little weight to work properly. I ask this question specfically as we operate the BMPCC.
     
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  8. Justin Marx

    Justin Marx Active Member

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    This is not true, my friend has mounted is Black Magic pocket camera and it works perfectly
     
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  9. Richard MacDonald

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    good! only going what i was told at the workshop....
     
  10. Tom Hannen

    Tom Hannen New Member

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    Any chance he/she could upload a photo of their rig balanced, so i can see how it looks?
    Many thanks to the other commenters - I'll go back, review the tutorials and try to correct the balance.
     
  11. Tom Hannen

    Tom Hannen New Member

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    Thanks for all the tips. I'd missed a couple of balance points. Also used a heavier lens, and the results are much smoother!
     
  12. Chris Fox

    Chris Fox Active Member

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    Tom try a heavier lens, running the Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 allows you to increase the stiffness settings to reasonable values, and smooths it right out.

    Cheers

    Chris
     
  13. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Tom looks good. The walker needs to learn to glide since it's likely that the up an down motion is the person carrying not keeping the rig at a constant level.
     
  14. Justin Marx

    Justin Marx Active Member

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    Guys just for the heck of it I balanced and shot with my iPhone 5s on the MōVI. Worked great! I think that more weight could help the settings a bit, but its all about balance.. Perfect that and your golden. I'll post the footage if ya really want ..
     
  15. Justin Marx

    Justin Marx Active Member

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    I can try and get this for you if still needed? But I think you are doing great now.. Balance, balance, balance :)
     
  16. Marc Morissette

    Marc Morissette New Member

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    Hi Tom

    here is what I did with the Shape WLB blackmagic cage IMG_7748.jpg
     
  17. Philipp Meier

    Philipp Meier Member

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    Hey Gary (or anyone else for that matter...) I would LOVE to see a "behind the scenes" of the glide walk. Like a short tutorial of how to walk correctly when using the Mōvi. I think that would be. Great resource to have!

    Thanks,

    Philipp
     
  18. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Phillipp: It's easier than you think. Get a coffee mug. Fill it to the brim with water so that only surface tension is preventing it from spilling on the floor.

    Now walk with it without spilling any. Slowly at first, then learn to speed up until you're almost running. :)

    You'll find that you're bending your knees through the whole stride and keeping your arm flexible to minimize the degree to which the walking motion gets passed through to the cup.

    Essentially, keep your knees bent and your torso a little lower to the ground. Then walk. And don't be afraid that passers by will collapse in uncontrolled giggling and you may frighten the horses in the street... :)

    Do not try this with the MōVI

    Andy.
     
  19. Chris Fox

    Chris Fox Active Member

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    Philipp Braun likes this.
  20. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    What that means is that you need to warm up before you start to shoot live footage by walking 10 steps....so you can get the spill over and done with ... :)

    Also, if you really want to motivate yourself, fill the coffee mug with good beer...

    Andy.
     

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