KDE 5215 435kv Coax MK Octo

Discussion in 'Cinestar 8' started by Ryan McMaster, Feb 15, 2015.

  1. Ryan McMaster

    Ryan McMaster Active Member

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    Curious if anyone has tested http://www.kdedirect.com/collections/xf-multi-rotor-brushless-motors/products/kde5215xf-435. I plan on running 18's top and bottom (possibly 16 top 18 bottom, will need to test).

    MK Bl 3.5 is rated to 60a per BL or 240a total, these peak at 61 under full load with 18's. AWU is 16kg, total thrust is 24.8kg at 50%.
    KDE's numbers on amps are on the money (bench showed that), at 50% the rig will produce 120 A or so which is half of what the BL can handle.

    I plan on sending one to holger to test, as well as the 330kv version. The one issue is the rig has to have dual FC for my 333, so that cuts using a Herk out of the equation.

    My concern is voltage spikes and the event that I will have to ditch one day. My bl3.0 test bench has not kicked any errors, but that's a bench, Not real flying.
     
  2. Jason Smoker

    Jason Smoker Active Member

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  3. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Ryan I would stay away from anything that draws more than 30 amps per BL with the MK BL's. You are correct voltage spikes are a concern as well overall current each board can handle. Think of this board as a good mid heavy lifter application board nothing that will safely handle the big KDE motors.

    With that said I have tested the Tiger 4120 motors and been able to safely run up to 28 pounds. I've run them for more than 150 flights now on 2 different copters. I have never seen more than 28 amps per BL in a flat 8 configuration with 16 inch props. In my opinion its about as much as you can run with these boards.

    Hope this helps.
     
  4. Ozkan Erden

    Ozkan Erden Distributor

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    There is no way to run 5215-435KV motors on BL Ctrl 3.0 boards. You will burn them just in minutes :)
     
  5. Ryan McMaster

    Ryan McMaster Active Member

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    Hm, Well back to the drawing board.

    Dave,
    Ill check out the 4120's, I assume they are similar to the KDE 4215's? I had a can fly off some fresh 4012's this weekend while working and want to swap to KDE for that reason, the C clip got caught in the Velcro around that boom thankfully and it had snapped. Ill give both a try.

    Ozkan,
    Ya, I was nervous pushing em on the test bench. at about 16A the board got to about 75f about 4 minutes in. With a cooling fan on them it kept them cool for about 8 minutes.

    Jason,

    Thats the chart I was looking for! Guess I need to send Holger a 4215 KDE as I think that could fit the bill

    I just ordered a v3 herk board, as I can modify my manual for this rig but I have to say I don't feel comfortable anymore with out a dual FC craft.
     
  6. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Hi Ryan, the 4021's are similar to the 4215's but the 4215's are a little more powerful and if you look at the specs they can jump from 31 amps to 38 amps very quickly if you gotta go 3/4 stick or higher. I hear what you are saying about the C Clip issue but I ran a flat 8 configuration and have already had one motor fail on me and was able to land in very controllable way. I really don't think you need the 4215's unless you are dead set on running X8 configuration or closer to 30 pounds or higher. IF you run X8 with MK at that weight you might have some altitude hold issues though so its a catch 22 in my opinion. For me the Tiger 4120's are the way to go as I'm not close to 30 pounds or higher.
     
  7. Ryan McMaster

    Ryan McMaster Active Member

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    Dave,
    Ya, that was a huge concern on the amp draw. I could run them with 16's or 17's (I have 12 of both) and ease back on the amp draw a bit. I'm going to order a set of both motors and do some testing (tiger and KDE). Ill send a KDE 4215 off to germany too to make sure its all good. AWU of 28-30 is what I wanted to aim for so this will work.

    At this point I am going to build a Herk system in Coax for testing larger payloads. The boards are not cheap but man they can turn some power. The biggest cam I plan on running on the MK coax is a RED Dragon. I can't fly single FC systems under what I am proposing for my 333, the coax MK manual is written, all I need to change is the motors and what props I am running.
     
  8. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

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    Just ordered the KDE5215 & KDE 75A controllers for a coax setup, I should have them this week. I will run these with 18" T-Motor props, MK flt ctr and 12 converter. I expect a very powerful system. I've recently built and flown a coax setup using KDE 4014s and KDE 55a controllers (MK/12c converter) with 18" tmotor props at an AUW of 13.5kg with 10min flight time. Copter flew nice and was very powerful only after I modified the MK mixer a bit to 64/70 from 64/67.
     
  9. Ozkan Erden

    Ozkan Erden Distributor

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    http://www.multirotorforums.com/threads/kde-4215-465-bench-test-shocked-by-results.23419

    This user's test shows that, the numbers presented by KDE is a bit different, lets say more on the optimistic side.
    Ryan, I think 4215 is also a no-go for BL Ctrl 3.0.

    These KDE motors are very powerful. Especially 5215Xf series excels in when you put higher throttle. With 330KV version, you need to put some big propellers to lift 30lbs AUW properly, according to the KDE's datas.

    If you can go flat Octo, KDE 4014XF + 18" props can lift your setup easily. I fly with 13kg AUW with KDE 4014XF-380KV + 18" props and the copter has some power reserved. When I reconfigure this setup as an X8, it doesn't fly as comfortably as before. It has around %25 power loss (in other words, efficiency loss).

    I would never trust BL Ctr 3.0 for motors which draw higher than 30Amps, as Dave said.

    Howard, I'd be very interested to see your results. Please keep us informed.
     
  10. Ryan McMaster

    Ryan McMaster Active Member

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    I was planning on the 435 KV, the 330's were for an experiment on 8s I wanted to try but it was too much of a pain. On the flip side the 330's may be ideal for the re-work I have in mind on this. 18's only produce 8.4 a per ESC a5 50% and 1950g/motor which is more then enough in a coax for what we want to fly (Dragon at most), My concern is the lower KV and breaking causing issues with the BL3.5 on decent or direction change when it engages to slow/speedup a motor.

    Im going to give the 4215's and the 4014's a try, as well as the tigers as Dave had recommended. I have one of the 5215's in both flavors at the moment and i feel like the 330's are worth a test

    The issue with a bigger frame is boom vibration. I think I would need a 1200mm frame to make 18" props work on a flat, and at that size the rig becomes a unruly nightmare without supports to dampen the flex in the CF as you ascend/move. I have seen a few 1000mm frames where people invert the counter clock motors but this seems to be a bad idea to me. The crossed thrust patterns would cause stability issues.

    The original plan was an Alexa M lifter but it looks like that is waiting for a bit=)
     
  11. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

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    Kde 5215-435s are in. They are big and a little heavy. Same size as the U7 but heavier. Can't wait to start testing but first i'll loctite 263 all retaining screws as well as removing the shaft and securing it with loctite 638 cylindrical retaining compound.

    The smaller motor is the KDE 4014 fpr comparison. image.jpg
     
  12. Ryan McMaster

    Ryan McMaster Active Member

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    Looking good! I bet the KDE stays about 10-15c cooler due to how open it is.

    I should be getting the second 5215 330 I ordered this week as well as the 4014's that are going to be used in the rig. 4120's will be in tomorrow and the plan now is to (since I have the booms) rig out two boom sets for testing between the tigers and the KDE's.

    I blew up a bl3.0 on the 4215's over the weekend so they are out. Ill be sending a 5215 330 KV to Germany as soon as they get in.
     
  13. Ozkan Erden

    Ozkan Erden Distributor

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    Ryan, I told you not to use 4215XF on BL Ctrl 3.0 :( I hope you used single BL Ctrl to test it out.

    5215XF-330KV will probably work but I'm not sure if it is going to generate enough lift for your need.
     
  14. Ryan McMaster

    Ryan McMaster Active Member

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    It was a single=). I got similar results to this guy on the KDE esc's too (I did not test the 55a). I personally would not run the 55a esc on the 4215s with anything but a 15" prop.

    I had good luck on my test jig with the 330's. On 6s at 50% with 18'' prop they put out about 1970g, a bit more then KDE lists at 8.4a. It's not much of a performance increase over the 4014's, but with a 20" prop they put out 2200 at 9.3a at 50%. temps never got above room temp (was 68f in my office) and it handled the breaking better then I though. The lift requirements changed a bit, I just want to have a max of 30 AWU. The extra weight of the motor vs the thrust produced makes it a bit of a wash.

    The herk board comes in Friday this week and I have some plans for it.
     
  15. Cam Batten

    Cam Batten Member

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    Hey Ryan,

    I've just installed the 5215-435 on my x8 with herk III. Drawing about 120 amps in a hover, and it flies very nicely. GPX file gave me max climb rate of 10m/s and forward flight at 70km/hr.. these things have power! AUW was around 12kgs. Really pleased with the setup
     
  16. Ryan McMaster

    Ryan McMaster Active Member

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    Cam,

    One fast rig eh=) What size props are you running?
     
  17. Cam Batten

    Cam Batten Member

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    Yeah, I haven't tested with movi yet to see how when I'll get props in shot, but it was fun testing.

    Running 17's top and bottom (tmotor cf), would like to try 18's, need to find a better way to mount my batteries first as 18's won't fit with my current configuration
     
  18. Ryan McMaster

    Ryan McMaster Active Member

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    Gotcha, Thats my big concern moving forward with an X8 on 18's. Going to test 500 and 550 booms.
     
  19. Cam Batten

    Cam Batten Member

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    yeah, I'm running a skyjib frame, and I hate the stock battery mount off the cage as it provides so little surface area for the battery, so I redesigned a tray to mount off short booms between the arms.

    However I think I will attempt to come up with an extension of the cage mount with a flat plate and end stops, then I could easily run 18's. I'll post a pic if I come up with anything worthwhile, although it probably wouldn't help you.

    Have considered extending booms but it may not fit in my car as nicely. probably a good excuse to start looking for a van..
     
  20. Ryan McMaster

    Ryan McMaster Active Member

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    Been looking at vans. I want something I can toss into my garage (my office is the bottom floor of my home) and have prepped the night before a shoot with all the gear (batteries too, my garage is insulated) in the van. The Ford transits are nice, and very affordable.
     

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