I Got Nothing...

Discussion in 'Radian' started by Chris Daidone, Jan 29, 2014.

  1. Chris Daidone

    Chris Daidone Member

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    So I had recently started a post in the Cinestar 8 forum, but I have new information concerning my issue and figured it would be best to start a new thread here in the right place. Let me get everyone brought up to speed.

    I had purchased a Cinestar 8 w/ 2-axis Radian gimbal / Spektrum Satellite complete. I assembled the copter, and bound it to a DX9. The previous owner had the gimbal ran through the Flight Control Board rather than directly from the satellite.

    The Spektrum TM1000 is attached to Servo 2 (top), and then out from Servo 1 (bottom) to the gimbal (see attached image). The Radians are wired as follows:

    Tilt:
    Port 2 on the tilt goes to Port 3 on the roll

    Port 1 on the tilt goes to FC

    Port 4 on the tilt goes to the tilt servo

    Roll:
    Port 1 on the roll goes to the BEC

    Port 4 on the roll goes to the roll servo

    After verifying that everything was assembled correctly, I turned it on. The boot up sequence went as it should and I noticed that both the tilt / roll Radians reacted and set themselves to center. I then found the 3 position switch that the tilt was set to and verified that it worked.... and it did. One thing I didn't do was verified that the roll was compensating.... But it did turn on and stabilize.

    I then went outside to calibrate the copter. I went through the whole calibration process and it seemed to work fine. Upon completion, I went to start the copter, and it started beeping just like it sounds when it looses signal or is not bound to a controller.

    I shut the copter off, went inside and hooked it back up to MKTools. Everything seemed to reset to a different value. I re-wrote back to 3 and things seemed to react properly again..... Except for one thing. The Roll Radian was not compensating any more. I get a solid green light and a flashing orange/yellow.

    I contacted the original owner and he sent me screenshots of how the Camera tab was set up, and all values were correct. The previous owner did not have the gimbal setup on a 3 position switch on the controller. Rather he had an on/off switch that would either cut the entire gimbal off and on.

    I then hooked up the Tilt Radian to the software and when I hit the switch on I got the following:

    Slew: Green
    Mode: Green (Mode 3)
    Servo: Green
    Aux: Red

    I then ran the software on the Roll Radian and got the following:

    Slew: Red
    Mode: Red (Mode2)
    Servo: Green
    Aux: Red

    I received some advise from a very patience and kind member of our forum to try switching from Servo 1 on the Flight Control to Servo 3 (Roll). So I did. Then I checked the Roll Radian again on the software and got the following:

    Slew: Green
    Mode: Green (Mode 2)
    Servo: Green
    Aux: Red

    But still no compensation...

    After running out of ideas, I thought that maybe something fried the roll servo. So to verify I ran it over to the tilt Radian to test... It didn't work. So I thought I might have my culprate. I then hooked the tilt servo back up to the tilt Radian to verify that it works properly. As soon as I did it came back on line and tried to spin 360. I immediately cut power and tried it again..... Not BOTH radians are non responsive and I get a solid green light and a flashing orange/yellow.

    I re-uploaded the firmware again on the Radians.... Still nothing.

    Now my Radian software readings for both the roll / tilt is as follows:

    Slew: Green
    Mode: Red (Mode2)
    Servo: Green

    I'm running out of both ideas and patience. Can anyone get me past this?

    Thanks in advance. Chris
     

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  2. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Chris: The TM1000 is a Spektrum Telemetry Module. Unless I'm mistaken, it is not a RC receiver. If you look in the manual you can see that it's designed to work by being connected up to a Spektrum receiver (the manual shows an AR8000 on page ...oh crap...they don't put page numbers on the manual would you believe. Dumb!) Well, look under "Hook Up."

    That's apparently a major problem right there.
    Where is the actual radio receiver (either main receiver or satellite) and how are they connected?



    If you look at the Radian manual at page 1, you can see that:
    a. Port 2: You have got the S.bus output correctly wired so that the Roll Radian is "daisy chained" to the Tilt Radian -- between the Radian modules, they use the S.bus protocol.

    b. Port 1 the primary input (use as the input for operator slew of the tilt axis), is connected to the Flight Controller board. I'm not sure where it is connected to the Flight Controller board, so I cannot comment on whether it is correct or not.
    c. Port 4 is correctly connected to the tilt servo.
    So Port 1 of the Roll Radian is the main power input for the Radian system.
    You said above that you have Port 1 of the *tilt* Radian connected to the FC. If you are using a connection that uses all three wires, then you will be providing a ground, signal, and +5 from the FC. So you have two places that are providing input voltage system and that's not a good idea because if there is any difference between the two voltages, then they will be "fighting" each other. The higher voltage will want to pull up the lower voltage.

    You therefore need to remove the red (center) wire from the connector that plugs into Port 1 of the *tilt* servo so that the connection to the FC is just the signal wire and the ground. (You must connect all grounds together so there is a "common ground.")

    Ah....but it's not, I'm afraid.

    They do that autonomously -- but it shows that the Radian/servo connections are ok..

    But where is the Mode control connected? There are three modes of operation. See the Radian manual at page 36. Somewhere on the "daisy chain" of Radians, you need to be providing the output of (usually) a three position switch that tells the Radians whether they are Off, in Stabilized Fixed (stabilizing but no operator control), or Stabilized Slew (stabilizing and the operator has slew control).

    From your description, there is nothing providing Mode control to port 2 of one of the Radians. Therefore, the system will default to Mode OFF (you can verify this if you connect up to one of the Radians using the PC software and you look at the monitor window that shows the Slew. See page 26 of the Radian Manual.

    What would be most helpful would be to look at the Diagnostics window of the PC software while it is connected to the Tilt Radian.
    You will be able to verify the whole shebang right there.

    Do that, then verify:
    1. What Mode is the system in (it shows as Red, Orange, Green) on the Mode.
    2. Do you have slew control?
    3. Is the Servo being driven (pick the copter up and waggle it and check Servo Out.


    With the copter powered up, systematically connect up to each Radian in turn (you have to do this physically -- they're not in a "party line" where you can talk to each Radian by connecting up to just one), click on Read and get the current status.

    Make screen shots and post them on the forum so we can see the settings.

    Andy.
     
  3. Chris Daidone

    Chris Daidone Member

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    The connection from the Spektrum Satellite is soldered to the bottom of the Flight Control Board.



    I verified the current configuration with Jeff at Quadrocopter and he confirmed it was good to go.


    The wire is already removed

    As I stated, apparently the previous owner utilized an on/off switch instead of a 3-position switch on the controller. When the switch for the Radians were turned on, it would take the tilt Radian all the way to Stabilization w/slew. Now for whatever reason, it doesn't even do that...

    However, I would like to dedicate a 3-position switch for this purpose. My POTI 4 (Ch 8) is what I would like to use. How to I set up the Radians for this?



    1. Mode is Orange.... The bar is RED
    2. Slew is Green and Center
    3. Pick it up...... Nothing happens




    See below attachments
     

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  4. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Aha. Good. Sorry..I'm just taking original posting as the starting place.
    But that then means we really need to be sure that there is valid PWM coming out of the Flight Control Board.

    Excellent. Sorry. Didn't realize you had done that.

    OK. That's one less thing to worry about.

    We'll need to step through the subsystem chain to make sure all is well.
    Could you connect up MKTool with the MK USB cable to the FC, then start up MK TOOL, and make sure you're receiving data from the copter, please?

    Then go to the Channels window in MK Tool. Make sure that when you operate the control *sticks* of the Transmitter (abbreviated to Tx) that you see channels one to four changing. That's just to make sure that the Tx is talking to the Receiver (Rx) and that the Flight Control is correctly decoding the Spektrum Rx signals.

    Then operate your three position switch (the one you want to use) and confirm that it is changing the value of Channel 8.

    OK. Mode is Stabilized Fixed. That's good. The fact that the Mode bar is red means you don't have actual control of the mode, if I remember correctly -- which is pretty much confirming what we already know.

    If you rock the copter back and forth (nose up, nose down), do you see the Tilt Servo out changing or does it stay fully at 100% (as it is in your image)?


    OK. (Any chance you could rotate your phone/camera/whatever) so that the screen shots are right way up for future images -- makes my neck sore to rotate my head 90 degrees! :) )

    Andy.
     
  5. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Warning. I made some edits to my posting above -- if you got an email version, check the actual posting above, please.
    Andy.
     
  6. Chris Daidone

    Chris Daidone Member

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    All sticks are working as they should, and the 3-position switch (ch8) is responding as it should as well.

    Neither the tilt nor the roll will compensate when I pick the copter up and rock it back and forth.

    The pictures were uploaded correctly on my end. When I go back into the post to view them, they are viewable as they should be.... Don't know what's going on...lol

    I really do appreciate your help Andy....
     
  7. Chris Daidone

    Chris Daidone Member

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    Update on the pictures Andy. Click on the actual link, so it opens into another tab.... then the pictures will be orientated correctly.
     
  8. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Could you post a screen shot of MK Tool's Camera window, please, Chris?

    Here's how to do it using just Windows: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/...en#take-screen-capture-print-screen=windows-8 (If you're not running Windows 8 (and I don't blame you :) ) do a Google search for:

    windows <insert version> screen capture

    What we have to figure out now is whether or not there is valid PWM signals coming out of the FC board.

    Andy
     
  9. Chris Daidone

    Chris Daidone Member

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    I'd love to take a screenshot for you but the piece of crap windows computer I have cannot hook up to the internet. I can think faster than it can.... I'm am a full mac business / house.... It baffles me that in this day and age... we got to do this stuff on a stupid windows platform. So with that said.... I will be forced to give you another iPhone pic.... Wait one second please..
     
  10. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    There's always Sneaker Net or thumb drives -- but I hear ya.
    Andy.
     
  11. Chris Daidone

    Chris Daidone Member

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    Here ya go Andy...
     

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  12. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    OK, we're gradually sneaking up on the problem, but a few more questions:

    What RC Channel (in MK Tool, Channels window) do you have assigned to Poti3, please Chris?
    Also, is there a chance you could take a close up photo of the FC board with the connections you have to it. Specifically, where the connectors for Nick (Servo 1) and Roll (Servo 2) are connected.

    Thanks.
    Andy.
     
  13. Chris Daidone

    Chris Daidone Member

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    Poti3 is Ch7 which is a 3-postition switch.

    I still have it configured the way Shaun suggested. Servo 3 is out to the tilt... See pics.
     

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  14. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    OK. Let me just restate things so I can have them clear in my head. Please let me know if I've got anything wrong!

    1. The 3 position switch that you want to use for Radian mode control is assigned on the transmitter to Channel 8.
    2. Channel 8 is assigned to POTI4 in MK Tool
    3. QUESTION: What is POTI4 controlling to in MK TOOL? It does not appear to be connected to anything on the Camera window of MK TOOL?

    4. Another 3 position switch on the transmitter is assigned to RC Channel 7 on the transmitter.
    5. Channel 7 is assigned to POTI3 in MK Tool.
    6. POTI 3 is providing servo control for the Nick/Tilt axis. This PWM signal emerges from the flight controller on the LOWER set of pins at SV2. (Refer to the flight control diagram from your first post.) However in the image you called servo 2.jpg, it's a little hard to see, but you appear to have it connected to the uppermost row of pins (designated Top: Transitor [sic] Outp.) instead of the lower row of pins designed Bottom: Servo1 (Nick). So it's not going to be controlling anything right now -- worse yet, you may (possibly) have fried the transistor output on the FC board, but let's wait and see on that.

    7. You have something connected to Servo 3 in the image you call Servo 3.jpg, but, in your screen image of the MK Tool Camera window, Servo 3 is emitting a constant value of 125. As such, that's not going to be controlling anything either.
    8. I apologize, but I've looked back over this thread and cannot see whether you've said where the wire from Servo 3 on the FC board goes? Can you tell me where, please?
    9. Once I know the answer to 8 then we can figure out how to proceed.

    Andy
     
  15. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Warning: Sorry...had to change item 3 above. Read the posting, not any email you might have received about a new posting.

    Andy.
     
  16. Chris Daidone

    Chris Daidone Member

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    Yes the 3-position switch is ch8 and is assigned to POTI4 in MKTools. However, I do not know where to connect it / assign it to the proper location in either MKTools or Radian software.... Please advise?

    POTI3 (Ch7) is set up correctly and is for the nick / tilt control on the gimbal.

    The PWM signal is currently coming from the Spektrum satellite into the UPPER set of pins on Servo 2 (how previous owner had it)

    Servo 3 is coming out to the FC board and going to Port 1 on the tilt Radian.
     
  17. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Hi Chris:
    Sorry, my day job as a forensic software analysts is calling....need to be offline for a couple of hours.

    Andy.
     
  18. Chris Daidone

    Chris Daidone Member

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    10/4.... Get back when you can.
     
  19. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    OK. I'm back.

    Sorry to be dense, but what is that you want to control with this 3-way switch/Channel 8/POTI4?
    It will require changing something in MK Tool to use POTI4.
    Let me know the answer to that and I'll do my best to tell you how to proceed.


    Understood. So the question then becomes "Why did the previous owner have the PWM *output* from the flight controller connected to the FC Output at Servo 3?"
    And that, I'm afraid, I don't know how to answer. Having the Rx connected to Servo 3 makes no sense as you have Rx output connected to Servo 3 *output*. You've got output connected to output. :)

    I thought from what you said before that the Spektrum Rx was connected to the solder pads marked Rx and G on the underside of the FC board.

    Right. And the problem is that in MK Tool, on the Camera window, you have Servo 3 set to emit a constant PWM value of 125, so that's just going into the tilt Radian Slew value -- so you cannot have any control over the tilt servo.

    The issues, as I see them are:

    1. You have a Tx switch and RC channel 8 to POTI4, but POTI4 is not assign in MK Tool to control anything.
    2. You have a PWM signal output by the Spektrum satellite receiver connected to the *output* Servo 3 on the flight control board.

    Which brings us to the questions:
    1. What are you trying to control with RC Channel 8/POTI4?
    2. Why do you have an Rx output connected to an FC output?

    Let's try and simplify this by focusing just on getting you some kind of control with Channel 8/POTI4. We'll worry about other things later.
    Given that, it simplifies down to "How do you control the Radian Mode using Channel 8/POTI4?"
    The answer has to be: Assign POTI 4 to either Servo 3, 4 or 5 on the FC board, and run a cable from whichever you choose to the Tilt Radian port 2. Then test (using the Radian software connected to the tilt Radian that you have Mode control when you operate the switch).

    Andy.
     
  20. Chris Daidone

    Chris Daidone Member

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    You are correct, the connections from the satellite are soldered to the underside of the FC board... My mistake. The wire coming off of the TM1000 is what's plugged into the UPPER side of servo 1... The original owner DID have the servo 1 (nick) going to the tilt Radian port 1.... It's only in Servo 3 now because of a suggestion from another member of this forum to see if that would get the roll radian on line. Should I switch it back?


    From everything I've watched / read, it seemed like I needed a 3-position switch to be able to toggle through the Radian modes (red, orange, green)?
     

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