Had my first Major Crash today

Discussion in 'Cinestar 8' started by David N Atkisson, Jan 17, 2013.

  1. David N Atkisson

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    In answer to Wolfgangs questions. I have flown way more then 75 feet away from my transmitter. In response to Gary, He is correct. I am using the mx-20 receiver for flight telemetry only. and the only thing the mx-12 is used for is for the camera/video /gimbal control. I am using the Radian system for all that control. The mx-12 receiver is not hooked into the CS8 flight control in any way. So my only concern would be if somehow the 2 receivers could interfere with each other by being in proximity to each other.
     
  2. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    The GR 12 doesn't have a Telemetry port, just 6 channels on the bottom, nothing on the top.
     
  3. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    If both RX are bound to the same TX, the second Rx you bind, shuts off its telemetry according the to Graupner RX documentation.

    Andy.
     
  4. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Andy: Just curious why would you have two RX's bound to the same radio? I'm guessing it would be so that you can operate a 2 axis gimble with radians??
     
  5. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    That's what I'm assuming Dave. I've got to get to grips with devising a clean single operator/dual operator setup in the next few weeks.
    I like the idea that the Radians can have both a Spektrum satellite and a Graupner GR-xx connected and will automatically give priority to the Spektrum if it's emitting control signals.

    Turn on the Spektrum Tx, and that controls the gimbal. Turn it off, and control reverts to the GR-xx.

    Andy.
     
  6. Wolfgang Armin

    Wolfgang Armin Active Member

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    That´s true, I was using a second MK FC back then and even though I don´t remember, I guess I would have plugged in the telemetry port rather than having the cable (that was already soldered) hanging around. So chances are that I was doing exactly what you suggest.
    Unfortunately I can´t tell which receiver I used, because I have 2x GR-24 and 1x GR-16 - all of them have telemetry though.
     
  7. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Did some reading last night and on the MX-20 and MC-32 you can 'bind' multiple receivers. You can tell the radio which one has telemetry, and reading between the lines you can only have ONE in that mode. The screen to do this is seems to be the Telemetry screen. The first selection is the Tel. RCV. If you have two or more receivers bound then you can click the SET button and select which one has the telemetry.

    This is a preliminary read and understanding. I'm still doing my rebuild and some test flights and don't have my gimbal yet installed. Probably do that in the next few days and report back.
     
  8. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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  9. Brad McGiveron

    Brad McGiveron Active Member

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    Gary... thats how I have one of mine setup for single operator. I run both GR24 and GR16 on the MX-20 and it works great. I run the 16 with the gimbal and the 24 with WKM. When two operator I just rebind the GR16 to another MX-20.
     
  10. Wolfgang Armin

    Wolfgang Armin Active Member

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    Thanks a lot, Gary that´s something I wanted to look into for quite some time now. Weather is bad here, so I hope I´ll be able to do it pretty soon.
     
  11. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    I read that too, Gary. I agree with your interpretation although I've not had the time/weather to try it.

    Andy.
     
  12. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Multiple test flights with the two receivers and it works great.
     
  13. Josh Lambeth

    Josh Lambeth Well-Known Member

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    I currently am flying with two receivers bound to my MX 20. The GR24 is on the copter and a GR12 is on my gimbal. I haven't had any issues with interference or loss of signal.

    Josh
     
  14. Josh Lambeth

    Josh Lambeth Well-Known Member

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    Hey Guys and David (I emailed you as well but thought I would share with everyone what I found).
    David shipped me all his electronics from his copter so I could take a look at them and see if anything was messed up. Here is what I emailed him about my findings:

    Good Evening, well morning now, David,
    I wanted to share what I have found with your boards:
    First Issue: Error 4: no Compass communication - cause... your missing your compass... It must have been knocked off in the crash. I am attaching a picture showing what it should look like and what yours looks like. Because of this you will need a new Navi Board. You MAY be able to send it to Quadrocopter for them to repair... but Im not sure if they can. This would also explain why you can't calibrate it and aren't getting the little ticking sounds.
    Missing.jpg
    Second Issue: Error 5: no GPS communication - I have tried everything I could find online and it is not working. I have tested your GPS module on my copter and it gives this error on my copter as well. If I plug my GPS module into your electronics it works. I checked everything on your GPS and can't find anything wrong visually but I think something broke somewhere else.
    Motor Test: I ran a motor test on all 8 BLs and each one seems to be working correctly. I don't think there is any issue with the board other then those 4 CAPs that are loose. I will secure those so they don't break off.
    FC: I have not had a chance to test fly this FC but I did watch the scope to monitor the Nick and Roll Accelerometers as well as the Gyros. Everything appears to be operating correctly. You can watch the scope and all the lines should be still as long as the FC is not being moved. If you move the FC you should get a reading. Everything appears normal when I do this. I will mount it to my small copter and fly it tomorrow to confirm it is ok.
    For the reason your copter fell from the sky I think I may know what may have happened. I was looking around at all the settings on your FC in MKTool and noticed that in the "Easy Setup" menu you have a value of "10" in the Motor Safety switch. This is telling me that Channel 10 on your transmitter is controlling the motors on the copter... Can you tell me what CTRL# on your MX20 is channel 10? I almost am wondering if you accidentally hit the switch and shut the motors off mid-flight. This would explain why you didn't get any error messages before the crash occurred. I would highly recommend setting this to "0" so you can ONLY start and stop the motors using the control sticks. I can change this for you while I still have the board.
    Another thing was your FC was set to setting "5" rather then the default of "3". I changed it back to "3" for you so it will fly easier. It will feel different now but it should fly smoother. Also if you would like I can load the settings I was using on my copter before my upgrade. It was extremely stable and easy to fly. Let me know if you want me to do this or if we meet up sometime I can set them for you then.
    Hope this helps! Ill give you some feedback on the flying ability of the FC once I get it in the air tomorrow.
    Josh
     
  15. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Compass error because there's no compass? Who'd a thunk it? :)

    One curious thing -- and Gary and I are on the phone discussing this -- the compass chip on our NC boards is on IC5 not 4. If you look at David's board closely, it looks like the IC5 pads are "two tone" -- not fully covered with solder -- that suggests it got knocked off IC5.

    It doesn't alter the outcome -- there is no compass chip. I'm pretty sure QC can replace the compass chip as the pads are not damaged for IC5.

    I'm not sure I agree with your thinking on the Motor Safety Switch, Josh. :)

    It all depends on whether David had checked the box under the motor safety switch channel checked...It's the one marked "motor start/stop -> gas - and motor switch on/off."

    If he did have this checked AND he had the throttle all the way back at zero, THEN the Motor Safety Switch becomes an actual motor switch -- and then you're absolutely correct. See "Opportunity 3" on this web page: http://www.mikrokopter.de/ucwiki/en/EasySetup/EasySetup

    If that checkbox is unchecked then you still have to do left-stick lower left and hold to turn off the motors. (That's described as "Opportunity 1" and "2" on this page.

    Andy.
     
  16. Shaun Stanton

    Shaun Stanton Active Member

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    He mentioned that he had expo or dr . Is it possible with the expo setting that his middle gas is no longer at the middle value? I was messing arround with these settings i think dual rate once an noticed thy I had to have my throttle higher than 50 percent to lock altitude.

    I have done some experimenting with my DJI, and I notice that if you descend too fast in straight column the props will get disturbed flying in their own wash an effectively stall out requiring more thrust to fly out. I had similar experience once, with the CS I started to descend out of 120 feet too rapidly in vario AH my copter dropped like a rock. I immediately disengaged AH went full throttle and stabilized. I lost 40 feet in about 2 seconds. It was the first time I flew a heavier camera that time and it caught me off guard. Experimenting with my $ 300 dji hexa I found that if I put into a rapid descent that I could advance smoothly advance throttle and move the copter laterally and it wouuld fly out of it and start climbing. The key thing is immediately get out of AH.

    This is something I learned that can catch you off guard. I wonder if that could be what happened. I have recorded both the CS and the DJI and notice when they are flying through the wash the motors sound choppy and disrupted then normal.

    Not saying that was the case but could be a simple explanation to what he had experienced.
     
  17. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Shaun:
    It's called the Vortex Ring State or "settling with power" when you descend the copter into its own dirty air. Not only does the copter descend rapidly, but it's very turbulent and usually trashes any video you happen to be shooting. Best avoided by translating sideways in a preferred direction as you descend the copter.

    See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_ring_state

    Some folks think that this was what happened when the chopper went down on the Osama Bin Laden raid.

    Andy.
     
  18. Shaun Stanton

    Shaun Stanton Active Member

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    Thanks I was looking for official term but drew a blank I knew it was somewhere in the universe ;) I agree I find that descending while translating does help out a lot. It is a useful flyout maneuver if you get caught in it inadvertently as well
     

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