Freefly gimbal stabilization

Discussion in 'Electronics' started by Michael Braun, Jul 1, 2012.

  1. Marc BRACELET

    Marc BRACELET Active Member

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    Hello at all, i have a another little question for beta tester...
    How many channels the 3 Axis system use on the Receiver. I have 8 Channels and i wanted to know how many of them where free after plug in the Radian system.:cool: ( seem's to be 5 on the Josh vidéo but i'm not sure...)
     
  2. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

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    Great. Josh, do you have this equipment already? If so have you crabbed at fast speed...let's say 15-20 mph. Would it be possible to do a quick test? Again, from the looks of it Radian looks to be a great solution and very well thought out.
     
  3. David Pope

    David Pope New Member

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    Hey Nick,

    Thanks so much for responding. No need for apologies.
    I really love your stuff. A majority of my team of therapists would suggest I have "issues" regarding unachievable perfection.
    I'm going to show them your "Radian Demo" and demand an apology, and a full refund.

    On a technical note though, I don't expect anyone to spend the time to set-up a shoot like that (dirtfish demo), and then not "bring it".
    By that I mean I hope you didn't waste that opportunity on testing a sub-system's capabilities. I'm not trying to bust balls, but for the sake of clarity, I need to know if both the 760's in-camera stab was on or off- AND post-stab, which you kindly stated was not used.

    I'm with Howard Dapp on a down-and dirty bench test vid by any of the beta testers.

    Ideal air tests: No GoPro-style lenses. No lens stab. No camera stab. No post stab. No wind.
    The equiv of 35mm (on a full frame sensor)or longer would be nice, as it is a test.

    Respectfully,

    David Pope
     
  4. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

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    I will buy this solution regardless because it is obviously a quality product as with all FreeFly products but I have learned that with these electronic gyro/acc based solution there is one common unwanted plague.

    Instead of crabbing sideways, to make it easy just rotate the gimbal 90° from front then fly the heli forward at a fast rate (approx 10-20mpg) at altitude so that the horizon is visible. Or just follow a moving vehicle at ground level and use their speed as a guide.

    Thanks,
    Howard Dapp
     
  5. Nick Kolias

    Nick Kolias Moderator
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    David, I probably should have done a better job with the description of these videos so that everyone knows what's going on. To to be clear:

    - I'm using very early prototype boards that are an entirely different form factor than the final boards that will be shipping soon. They have gotten better and smaller.

    - All shots with the Sony CX760 are utilizing the BOSS stabilization (set to ACTIVE).

    - None of the CX760 shots are post stabilized.

    - Three of the clips in the longer demo (from the DSLRs) were post stabilized just enough (about 10%) so that they would match the stability of the CX760 footage.

    I'm very much a perfectionist myself and my goal from the outset of getting into all this has been Cineflex like performance directly from the machine. When you consider that the cost of a full size helicopter with a Cineflex rig is close to $7k an hour it brings into perspective what kind of challenge it is to emulate that on our scale. The bottle neck and biggest limitation now are the servos. As good as the FreeFly servos are (and I've tested other high performance hobby servos as well) they simply can not offer the resolution and speed needed to produce Cineflex like results. That will no doubt change in the future as direct drive solutions emerge that are powerful enough to be used on these gimbals and allow us to use the kind of cameras we want. But for now, the best combo I have found is the Radian system with the CX760. The beauty of it is how well the Radian system does all of the primary stabilization while the 760 takes care of little servo pan/tilt anomalies. Remember though that the 760 does nothing for the roll axis so it has to be fundamentally solid from the mount and it's pretty close to perfect in my opinion.

    nick
     
  6. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

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    Nick, thanks for clarifying. Can you confirm that you did not have roll stabilization active at :22 in the "Dirtfish Demo" video? It is understandable that you are using pre-production equipment and that the final production batch will undoubtedly have any kinks worked out.

    I doubt anyone is expecting Cineflex like results from this product. Bumps, little wiggles and once in a while herky jerky video can be fixed in post, this is the nature of our equipment unless you build a "system" like direct drive Zenmuse.

    At minimum, a good stabilization solution should be able to give us accurate 3 axis leveling. Current high-end servos are fast enough to accomplish this.

    Thanks,
    Howard Dapp
     
  7. Nick Kolias

    Nick Kolias Moderator
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    Roll stabilization is active in that demo. That clip at :22 is being actively dutched by the camera operator.
     
  8. Tabb Firchau

    Tabb Firchau Administrator
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    Just to clarify roll stabilization is active (it is always active if the system is turned on) but the camera operator is clearly commanding a roll slew in the shot at :22. I typically have my roll setup so that there is no slew control of the axis so that the camera operator does not accidentally get the roll axis out of level.

    The only time I like a off level roll axis is exactly how Nick used it in dynamic car / chase shots.

    Howard- the Radian is the most accurate camera stabilization module that I have ever used. The level to which it performs on holding the horizon is much much higher then the zenmuse which drifts all over the place.

    That said the hobby servos do not have the performance of the direct drive motors on the zenmuse.

    You are exactly right. The Radian with hobby servos will very accurately hold angles on pan / tilt / roll and allow for really great raw video or perfect looking post stabilized footage. When you accurately hold the PTR angles the post stab has much less work to do.

    Best,

    Tabb
     
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  9. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

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    That is nice to hear Tabb. Thanks for the clarification. We do film lot's of motorbike and car scenes at moderate speeds and have had issues with several other stabilization solutions when used under these conditions.

    Confirmed! Radian will hold a level horizon at speed!

    Will be placing our order for a couple of sets.
    Thanks again,

    Howard Dapp
     
  10. David Pope

    David Pope New Member

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    Right on Nick. I guess the title "Radian Demo" threw me. My tiny brain read "radian test". Thanks for the clarifications.
    You guys are really nailing it.

    Dave
     
  11. Richard Gillette

    Richard Gillette New Member

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    Great stuff Nick.
     
  12. Joe Azzarelli

    Joe Azzarelli Active Member

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    Nick
    How would you compare the CX760 to the FS100? Specifically in the quality of the video and the difference in stability due to BOSS.

    Thanks

    Joe
     
  13. Nick Kolias

    Nick Kolias Moderator
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    Joe, the FS100 produces a better image. Larger sensor, better processing, higher bit rate and greater latitude with the ability to handle higher contrast scenes without having highlights clip and blacks go muddy. The fact the FS100 offers full manual control over all operations is a big advantage over the 760. There are other little things, like being able to record 30P, which the 760 lacks. The 760 is a very nice consumer camera and it does produce great images, especially in ideal light. The stabilization system is amazing. It's magic in the air. We were zooming in 50% and still getting extremely stable footage. If Sony ever releases a FS100 variant with BOSS it would be a game changer.

    It's too bad we're such a niche market because all the technology exists to make the perfect aerial camera. We just need to convince the right company to make one with the crazy combo of features and form factor we need! :D

    nick
     
  14. Joe Azzarelli

    Joe Azzarelli Active Member

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    Nick,
    Thanks for the reply. I invested in the FS100 and was doubting my decision because of all the great video being shown from the 760. Unless they build a BOSS e-mount zoom lens, I guess I should have both.

    I failed to express my appreciation for your work. I know it is not a series of happy accidents. The results you are achieving takes talent, practice and planning. It is nice to have this inspiration. ;-)

    Joe
     
  15. Josh Lambeth

    Josh Lambeth Well-Known Member

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    Hey Howard,
    Yes I have this system and it does extremely well "crabbing" at speed. I am actually putting together a before and after video using different lenses so you can see a nice side by side comparison between the two systems. I am just waiting for some new O-Rings for the vibration isolators since mine have streched in the heat here in Phoenix and now my footage is bounce. :(

    Should have them in the next day or two then a little more testing and tweaking and I will be ready to shoot the second part of the test.

    Josh
     
  16. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

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    Thanks Josh. If you decide to use the 760 could you perform the test with the BOSS system off and no post stab? Yes, the video probably won't be the most stable and we ALL know this even if we sometimes like to hide that fact about our birds... I know I sometimes do :). Only the roll axis is being observed.

    Thanks again!

    Howard
     
  17. Josh Lambeth

    Josh Lambeth Well-Known Member

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    I don't have the 760. All my tests are being done on the 5dMKII with a 20mm, 50mm, and 85mm lenses.

    Josh
     
  18. Tabb Firchau

    Tabb Firchau Administrator
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    Howard, just to reiterate. There is no stabilization on the 760 on roll axis. What you see from anything shot on a 760 in the roll axis is exactly what the mount is doing.

    Best,

    Tabb
     
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  19. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

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    Thanks again Josh,

    If it's possible to do a couple of very low altitude flights...5-6 feet off the ground, maybe follow a moving car or bicyclist while keeping their entire side profile in the frame. If you could keep the heli crabbing along at the same height as the car that would be great but if not maybe just a couple of feet above.

    Thanks,
    Howard
     
  20. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Hi Howard:
    I was trying something kinda simiilar this morning, only using a guy on a tractor (bigger target). I wouldn't *dare* do this using FPV... Ok, what I should have written is "I wouldn't dare do this using FPV *again*." Man, five feet is soooo close to the ground and AH doesn't seem to have the resolution to stay on the right side of crash/no crash. I came "out of" FPV after just a few seconds. I stopped shaking a few minutes later.

    Tabb: Do you have any products in the works that will stabilize the pilot? ;)

    Andy.
     

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