Finally found a DSMC2 Lemo Monitor Cable that works with 7"/Movi Pro

Discussion in 'MōVI Pro' started by Adam Brennan, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. Adam Brennan

    Adam Brennan Member

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    I think several of us were having issues with using a Red DSCM2 camera with the 7" monitor using the Movi Pro power. One of the main issues I had using the combo mentioned was the camera locking up. Several companies I bought "high-end custom lemo cables" from that charged over $350 blamed the Movi Pro for not supplying enough power and so on to the Red that was causing the malfunction of the display locking up the camera..
     
    #1 Adam Brennan, Jan 4, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  2. Chris Olson

    Chris Olson New Member

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    YES! I can vouch for it. So far it has outlasted my RED branded cable...

    Have many other Alvins cables. They are all very solid. Especially for the price.
     
  3. Michael Rosenberg

    Michael Rosenberg New Member

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    While I see Chris mention Alvins cables, I see no mention of what you're specifically referencing in your original post, Adam. Am I missing something? I am also having serious issues trying to power the RED from the Movi Pro when using our 7" RED Touch. I contacted Freefly but have yet to hear back.

    Whats the elixir?
     
  4. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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  5. Michael Rosenberg

    Michael Rosenberg New Member

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    Thanks Graham,

    Is this the one you were referring to Adam? Has anyone else had success powering their Red w/ 7" monitor from the internal?

    Thanks again
     
  6. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I've seen so many circular discussions about this problem. It could be firmware on the RED, it could be the D-Tap power cable, it could be the EVF cable, could be the side pogo or the top pogo or the Wooden adapter... I haven't seen a definitive answer all in one place in the year or so that this problem has come up again and again.
     
  7. Michael Rosenberg

    Michael Rosenberg New Member

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    That's pretty frustrating and disappointing. I went the FF route over the Ronin 2 because I thought it would serve my needs, introduce me into a stronger ecosystem, and provide customer support when we run into issues. It seems that the most important one, #1, is unfortunately not all it was hyped to be. But now we're going to need to look into returning and going Ronin 2 for our needs.

    Seems like Freefly really needs to build more overhead into their products. This is simply a ridiculous issue that I'm shocked hasn't been handled in the year that the Movi has been out. I simply wish I had known to search for this issue before I placed my order, but like most things - you don't know until you try. Bummer.
     
  8. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    There have always been issues with the RED 7" monitor and the thin EVF cables, and none of that was Freefly's fault. Even Media Blackout posted a note on their site that the Hyperthin cable would only work with the smaller 5" monitor, not the 7".

    I know I've seen it all working on a Movi Pro before, the RED and the 7" monitor. Just not sure why some people seem to have trouble. You could post this problem to one of the several Movi groups on Facebook and get more replies.

    I think there are several problems that all get confused as the same problem though. It's never been a deal-breaker for me... Use the BNC out for monitoring instead of the LCD, and control the camera via wifi or the Sidekick. You don't HAVE to use the 7" monitor. Or try the 4.7" monitor.

    Again, you'll get a broader response on Facebook I think.
     
  9. Michael Rosenberg

    Michael Rosenberg New Member

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    Thanks Graham. Unfortunately, we only have the 7" monitor at the moment so this really is our only option, plus it is the most effective way to control the camera in one-man-band situations. I've found Movi Pro reviews on Youtube running this very setup, so we're going to try a different lemo and the RED adapters instead of our WC pogo setup. If it still doesn't work, we'll probably return the unit.

    Thanks again for all of your responses - the FB Group was a good idea so I'll give that a go
     
  10. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good. If you find a solution, please let us know.

    By the way, what is the problem you’re experiencing? Camera shut down? Monitor not working? Broken up image?
     
  11. Michael Rosenberg

    Michael Rosenberg New Member

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    I've experienced a wide array of issues. Camera would power on, monitor backlight would turn on but not display image. I was able to get it all to come to life exactly once running off of the internals, but then a purple line crossed the monitor and froze the entire camera system. After that I was unable to get it to display the monitor again. I've read horror stories on RED user groups about this causing serious issues with their cameras so after the last freeze I stopped trying and just balanced the v-lock on the camera.
     
  12. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    This particular problem might be related to your red’s firmware. Which fw are you running?
     
  13. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    One problem is there are something like five Facebook groups dedicated to movi users and they’re not searchable. So I read conversations about these problems but can’t go looking up the thread again very easily. I remember someone mentioned new RED firmware causing a problem and I think the solution was to roll it back.

    It’s unfortunate that this forum isn’t more popular. There are some great people contributing to these conversations on Facebook. Maybe it’s because they’re already on Facebook every day and watching this forum takes more effort.
     
  14. Jesse Ekholm

    Jesse Ekholm New Member

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    I have not used the Mövi Pro with a Red DSMC2 camera yet but I recently shot a commercial with the Mövi m15 and a Red Scarlet-W. The Mövi kit we used, was mainly set up for the production companys aerial work so they had a Connex wireless video setup instead of a more traditional system. Now the connex uses hdmi, so I thought no problem. But because of the top cage blocking the top monitor attachment, we had to use the wooden camera braided flex pogo cable from the left side output. Well turns out using the side output disables the HDMI port of the V-lock I/O module. You can only use either one at a time. So the 7" monitor just went black and sometimes the hdmi signal went black. And it took some time to figure it out. Eventually we used a SDI to HDMI converter to get both monitors working. Maybe this is a different problem than you guys are having if, you can get it working with the 4,7" monitor. But thought I'd share this discovery, since we also thought it was a battery problem at first, since we were using quite small V-lock's to power the camera, and Arri SXU focus.
     

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  15. Austin Straub

    Austin Straub New Member

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    cross-posting myself from REDUSER:

    Wasn't aware of this issue unfortunately until I was on set trying the exact same setup this week. Panic set in pretty quickly when my camera's fans just stopped spinning despite the green power light being on still. Tried rebooting, reconfiguring, everything – but still no monitor feed until I removed the WC POGO Cable and booted up. Camera stayed stable and perfect feed output over Teradek.

    I ran out of time to get balanced after finally figuring this out, and scrambled back to handheld config. Used the WC POGO cable again (as I was having no issues in handheld config all day prior to this) and my monitor was completely green, couldn't see anything. Reboots and reseating did nothing. Finally gave up and mounted the wireless monitor and hammered out the last 3 shots before sunset. Super embarrassing, incredibly annoying, and honestly terrifying after hearing about WC top plates zapping stuff. Camera seems to be fine now.

    I emailed WC support and am awaiting a reply.


    (FWIW – RED EPIC-W v7.1.0.1 with 7" RED TOUCH and MOVI PRO v1.5.2 and 24" WC POGO to POGO)
     
  16. Austin Straub

    Austin Straub New Member

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    cross post again:

    Okay, a quick update:

    This appears to not be the fault of the WC Pogo Cable after all.

    After methodically ruling out the Movi's power output to the RED and having the 7" Touch cabled vs cableless (I know, impractical, just for the sake of elimination), it has narrowed down to a weird set of circumstances.

    1) Glitching and freezing and camera boot failure happen regardless of AC power vs onboard Movi Power.

    2) This has nothing to do with RED Firmware (or at least hasn't been addressed on 7.1 or 7.2)

    3) This only happens when pausing and reactivating motors on Movi Pro. Pausing causes glitching, reactivating causes freezing. One more cycle of it caused camera fans to fail and SDI output to Teradek to fail.

    4) This only happens when the 7" touch is mounted to the top handle of the Movi Pro (vs laying on the work mat next to me while testing)

    5) Out of curiosity, I moved the Freefly monitor quick release peg from the 1/4-20 hole on the 7" Touch to the hole on the WC POGO cable and have not been able to reproduce the issue.


    So, I'm not an expert here, but this seems to be a case of some really funky interference between the 7" Touch and the Movi Pro. Specifically when the monitor is directly mounted to the top handle. Really bizarre.


    Waiting on word back from WC, but I think it's safe to say this cable isn't the problem...
     
  17. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    As a Movi Operator who works with all different cameras and configurations, this is my solution for RED:

    I don't count on being able to use the touchscreen monitor. Period. It's super unreliable, you never know what POGO to Lemo connector there will be, and it draws more power than the Movi wants to give. Sometimes it will work, but I just write it off.

    Instead, I operate off my Small HD 503 monitor on the ring (powered separately with its own battery), and only one little SDI cable between Ring and gimbal.

    I bought Fool Control for my iPhone. It's clunky and the range sucks, but in a pinch, it can work to change settings, format cards, etc.

    I also usually can get a SideKick with the RED DSMC2's, which can be helpful, unless you can't get your fingers in to push the buttons.

    For all the problems you're describing, I don't have time to mess with the RED monitors on the Movi.
     
  18. Austin Straub

    Austin Straub New Member

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    Yeah I hear you.

    Was just wanting to get this info out there in case something can be investigated by either RED or Freefly. Cause it seems to be more than just a power issue (which was my first guess) as it was happening regardless of drawing from AC or V-mount or the Movi.
     
  19. Blake Williams

    Blake Williams New Member

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    For what it's worth, I'm able to use the 7" monitor with the Epic-W or Scarlet-W if I set the refresh rate on the monitor to 30hz instead of 60hz. That's using pogo to lemo adapters on both ends and an Alvins lemo cable. For some reason, on the Gemini I'm not able to change the refresh rate of the monitor so still have all those nasty issues. Anyhow, hopefully that's helpful intel for some of you!
     
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  20. Michael Tushaus

    Michael Tushaus New Member

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    From my experience recently, I definitely had major issues like Graham connecting the RED 7" via the WC pogo to pogo cable. The screen would either stay black (but could see it was on), or if it did have signal, it had a lot of glitching and syncing issues. For a feature I DP'd recently, I was then forced to go to having my SmallHD 702 mounted up top and mounted a 4.7" RED touch directly to the brain and balanced accordingly. It worked though I felt it was clunkier and heavier. Once I had some downtime afterwards to experiment more, I went back to trying to get a RED monitor to directly connect via pogo cable and mount up top. Again the 7" kept freaking out, which I kept thinking I had a bad WC pogo cable. Then, since I had the 4.7" also, I figured I would try it just to see if there was a difference. And, sure enough there was. The 4.7" worked flawlessly--so well that I was confident enough to shoot a UFC spot this past weekend with it and it worked perfectly. Now, mind you, I did have my SmallHD 702 and Foolcontrol all on standby in case anything went wrong. But fortunately, it was the solution to the problem. My verdict would be that if you want to run a lemo or pogo style cable to control and monitor the RED, you'll need to stick to the 4.7" or 5" (which I also had luck with on an Epic Dragon via lemo). And if you're over 40 like me, use some reading glasses. Lol. Also note that I'm running wireless HDMI, so I'm running the pogo on the top front contact as the left side contact can only handle either/or with HDMI.

    Also, as a side note, my current MoVi Pro set-up consists of the DJI TB50 batteries mounted via the Ignite plates. I am able to power my Gemini, Paralinx/Teradek, 4.7" monitor, and Tilta Nucleus M motor all off of the TB50's. I ran a timed test a couple weeks ago when I flew an Epic Dragon on it--similar set-up--5" RED touch, Epic Dragon, Paralinx and Tilta motor--and I was able to run a single pair of batteries for 2 1/2 hours. No joke! Now, I did have it running at room temp, and sitting on my counter. So this was not a real world application test. But, it was good to know that even with the batteries down to 12 and 15%, the whole build was still up and running and I was even able to still hot swap. On my shoots so far, I have been swapping around 30% battery, and I get a good 90 minutes of safe running time, and I know I could push it further in a pinch. Just throwing it out there as well since I know the battery life is a constant debate. The Ignite plates and TB50 have been a great solution for me so far. Switched from my Ronin to MoVi Pro two months ago and its been nothing but great to work with. No fuss, easy to balance, lighter than Ronin 2, and still lots of configuration options.
     

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