Filtering out the noise, Ch 14 Part 107 vs 112-95's 333.

Discussion in 'Flight Regulations' started by Shaun Stanton, Jun 25, 2016.

  1. Shaun Stanton

    Shaun Stanton Active Member

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    Guys there is a lot of noise on the internet. I have gone over specific topics in the 107 to find choke points where you might need to be under your 333 for a bit.

    1. First off if you have the 333 and any supplemental COA 's, they are good until they expire.

    2. Why would I need to use my 333 when I get my 107 ticket?
    • Good question, the answer is airspace and closed set work under the MPTOM.
    • Airspace: Under the 107 operating in class B through E is not going to be a simple as we thought. The coordination will be done thru a waiver portal. Based off of the language this sounds very similar to getting a special COA for the 333 guys.

      • Example 1: On August 20th I get my 107 RPIC, hooray for me! On August 22 I have a job flying inside KABQ's class C airspace. Hmm. I just applied for a waiver for that airspace but it has not been approved yet. Darn, what do I do? Well, I have a special COA under my 333 that allows me to operate upto 1 NM of KABQ for my 333. At this time I will be doing the job under my old 333 and special COA. I will not be exercising my privileges under my newly minted 107 card.
    • Closed set work: If you do a ctrl-f in the new 107 document, you will find out that you need a special waiver to fly for closed set work to be in close proximity to participating people.

      • Example 2: In the first scenario, I am also doing the flight for a TV show. Darn again, I am still waiting for that waiver to go through. My 333 as well as many others have paragraph 2 that says I can fly for closed set work. Again I need to operate under my 333 for that provision. Yeay!
    3. The Big Gotcha!
    • You will not be able to mix and match provisions in both settings to suit your needs.
      • In the above examples I am going to operate under my 333.
      • I found out that there are some lesser strict requirements under the 107
        • You can fly 400 feet above a structure as long as you are within 400 feet of the structure. The 333 said 400Ft AGL period.
        • You can now follow the drone in a car now on a rural road.
          Under the 333 this was not allowed at all.
        • You do not have the arduous 500 foot rule around non participating property.
        • You no longer need a VO
          Old 333's this was an option but the new ones it was mandatory.
        • You can temporarily deviate from the LOS requirement for operational necessity as long as you can reestablish the VLOS in a reasonable amount of time.
          The way I interpret this is that I can do a car follow and be heads down in the glass to do it precisely. As long as the system is still visual and I can reacquire it I meet the intent of the requirement. It does not imply that I can fly the thing two miles away temporarily if I can no longer visually acquire it.
      • In my case I will be operating under my 333. So I will not be able to use any of the less strict 107 provisions while flying under the 333.
      • The Special COA for the 333 does not transfer to the 107. You must get a 107 waiver instead.
    4. The 107 RPIC does not meet the Part 61 requirements for the pilot under the 333.
    • Why is this important?
      • You might be one of those entities that have a 333 but had to hire a real pilot to do the actual work. Now you can do it yourself with your 107 cert. However, if your flight can only be accomplished under your 333. You with only a 107 RPIC will not be legal to do it.
     
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  2. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

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    Thank you, Shaun.
     
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  3. MIke Magee

    MIke Magee Active Member

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    That was a great writeup Shawn. I'm STILL waiting 4 months for 4 COA's related to similar auth for class Delta's around me.

    ON A 107 NOTE: (http://www.uasvision.com/2016/07/18/faa-gives-tsa-another-job-drone-pilot-vetting)

    FAA Gives TSA Another Job: Drone Pilot Vetting


    [​IMG]

    The FAA has given the Transportation Security Administration (“TSA”) a new and potentially time-consuming task: vetting commercial sUAS pilots who do not already have a certificate to operate manned flights. The proliferation of new applications underscores the importance of having an adequately staffed and funded TSA so integration of commercial sUAS is not delayed.


    Part 107 creates a new UAS-specific pilot certificate, separate from pilot certifications for manned aircraft. To attain a remote pilot certificate, the applicant must be at least 16 years of age, be English-language proficient, and pass an aeronautical knowledge test. After passing the test, the TSA vets the applicants to determine whether they represent a security risk to the NAS. TSA screening is only required for new applicants—pilots already certificated under Part 61 are not required to be vetted, as they already cleared a background check.

    As industries across the country begin to incorporate commercial sUAS into their businesses, one major concern is that the already-overburdened TSA might cause a delay for applicants. Long TSA airport security lines have become headline news over the past few months, highlighting the agency’s staffing shortage and prompting Congressional oversight hearings. Industry stakeholders eager to incorporate sUAS technology will be carefully reviewing the TSA vetting process to ensure that it doesn’t create a bottleneck for remote pilot applications. The benefits of Part 107 hinge on the ability of the TSA to effectively vet applicants and make commercial operations widely available.

    The TSA is incorporating a similar standard to the well-established process for vetting pilots of manned aircraft, and which provides many layers of administrative and judicial review. As long as the resources are available to review the initial glut of applications, the process itself should be similar to the current system to vet pilots.
     
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  4. Shaun Stanton

    Shaun Stanton Active Member

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    Thats why I sent some of my people that will be back up pilots to go get Student Pilot certificates a few months ago, that supposedly grants them the TSA check as well.
     
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  5. MIke Magee

    MIke Magee Active Member

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    Very wise Shaun. Define "supposedly" for me?
    -m
     
  6. Shaun Stanton

    Shaun Stanton Active Member

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    To get a student pilot cert now you have to go through the TSA background check before its issued. So the FSDO has indicated that the TSA check for the student pilot suffices the one for the 107 RPIC. Someone with a new student pilot cert will still have to do the full knowledge exam, but will at least have the TSA part done.
     
  7. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Shaun I"m stretching my CFI old knowledge but the student license is time limited isn't it? Not a perpetual license like full PL license. Wonder how the FAA/TSA are going to handle the interpretation or application of the TSA requirement.
     
  8. Shaun Stanton

    Shaun Stanton Active Member

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    These new certificates do not expire unlike the old ones. They no longer are issued by a AME anymore. They are separate from the medical now. You fill out the online airman certificate application on IACRA now and have a current CFI validate it, then the FAA has the TSA go through the process. It takes about 3 weeks to get one.
     
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  9. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Read the latest AC 61-85F. The CFI still needs to 'recommend' the applicant to be approved after checking all of their ID info. The CFI's I know won't 'recommend' someone who is not flying with them. To much liability. But certainly worth a try...
     
  10. Shaun Stanton

    Shaun Stanton Active Member

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    Yup, that is true. I used the validate, instead of recommend I got a couple friends who are CFI's that I fly with occasionally. They signed my two guys off. I don't see what the liability would be since the student ticket is useless without the endorsements.
     
  11. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Shaun it's follow the money. Guy crashes and seriously hurts someone with his UAV. Lawyers will track down anyone and everyone that worked, talked, coached, signed off, got him his student license. You might not end up with paying anything for liability. You will pay to fight the charges. That's why I wouldn't use my CFI to do it. Not worth the exposure. YMMV
     
  12. Shaun Stanton

    Shaun Stanton Active Member

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    I suppose so. I think that would be huge stretch IMO. I guess I can see your concern, to certain extent.
     

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