Dji Ronin?

Discussion in 'MōVI M10' started by Sam Fleishman, Apr 8, 2014.

  1. Augusto Alves da Silva

    Augusto Alves da Silva Active Member

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    Hi Dan:

    These videos just show that people buy things without even knowing how to tune them or operate them. It is not my business and it is the manufacturer responsability to help the customers. I know exactly what is happening on those Ronins but people don´t even check if their firmware version is the latest or not. I can tell you that I bought mine and the first thing I did was to update the firmware wich was in fact outdated. Secondly the problem with the vibrations is the gains being too high and ressonance due to the gimbal being on the stand. Sometimes my M10 when the gains are too high shakes like that and stops when you hold it with both hands. Did you know that there are different tunings to hold the gimbal on the two handles and on the top one? Gimbals are not toys. They are precision mechanisms and people have to learn, study and understand their functioning. Why do some people buy steadicams and have excellent footage and some get crappy stabilization and sell their rigs? Because like everything there is a learning curve and people want to run before learning how to walk. I have been in these last two years through all the problems that a 3 axis gimbal can have...from electronics to faulty batteries, from defects in the controller boards to broken IMU´s to reversed phase on the motors...well it doesn´t matter. What I can tell you is that I can easily fix almost any problem unless it is a part which needs replacement. Now you might ask why don´t you fix these guys gimbals? It is not my business. I operate Movi´s and Ronin´s and Squirrel and Beasteady for a living. Which one I prefer? MOVI. Which one I advise people if you ask me? The one you can afford. As simple as that. Are all gimbals the same? NO but are all cameras the same? 90% of all the cinematographers shoot daily low end cameras while others use different cameras from DSLR to Arri Alexa even to iphone. What counts is not the camera. It is the person behind the camera. The same happens with gimbals. I have seen terrible footage with the Movi and excellent footage with the Came.tv 7000. Is it better than the Movi? Not even in dreams. But still a cheap price allows you to do some moving shots without bumps and if you know how to fine tune it the results would be excellent. Would I buy one? NO! I live off operating these rigs and my level of demand is very high. I don´t play around with this I am hired to do the best possible work and I use what I have to use to achieve it with reliable consistent gear. I just create price levels and the Movi service happens to be the best one but the most expensive IMHO. Would I dare to use Ronin? Of course and I do. I can get very similar results not better or worse just different. Movi is lighter and never let me down. Ronin? Mine works perfectly started with the wrong foot but it performs beautifuly now. The problem in this industry are those who say" I HAVE A MOVI" but when they show up on set they bring a cheap clone. Most of the times Directors get disappointed with the shots and say I had very nasty experiences with the Movi. After they see the result with a "real" Movi they are convinced and realize they have been taken for a ride before. I hope you understood what I mean...practice makes perfect but it is not pushing the button and that´s it. Everyone of us has their secrets about their jobs and I have mine. Thank you for your comment.
     
  2. Kemalettin Sert

    Kemalettin Sert New Member

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    So what now :) Still think movi M10 worth 15K$ ??
     
  3. Ozkan Erden

    Ozkan Erden Distributor

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    I have got Ronin today and have been playing with it for a while. I will cut it short: Movi is far more superior than Ronin. You cant even disable Roll axis control for the RC!

    It`s too heavy for handheld jobs and for aerial. It would be very very nonsense to fly this and there are some issues reported on horizon hold for aerial usage.

    Software wise, again Movi is more advantageous.

    The only thing DJI did very right was to give bunch of good accessories and a good case. I can`t find anything missing from the package.

    For professional usage, my definite choice is Movi. The reason why we read lots of `wowws` about Ronin is, they haven`t used Movi yet and probably the best gimbal they have used is Alexmos based.

    Ronin would be OK for cable cam systems, vehicle systems etc. Bot not for handheld and not for aerial.
     
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  4. Augusto Alves da Silva

    Augusto Alves da Silva Active Member

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    Sorry Ozkan I disagree...but it is your choice of course. I would never use it on a multirotor due to its weight but I still use it handheld and it has never failed on me. I wish I could justify the price difference but I can´t. I don´t know which camera you use with it or movi but if you fly a RED fully geared it won´t be Ronin´s weight the negative factor. the whole thing will weigh a ton.
     
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  5. Kemalettin Sert

    Kemalettin Sert New Member

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    i worked with Ozkan week ago on a job.He flied with Carbon Epic Superspeed with motion mount everything worked great and didnt have any problem for 3 days.also there was DJI ronin fully equipped Epic superspeed plus cmotion on it.The thing weighed a ton! barely i could carry it.Had 4 weeks feature with M10 last month and let me tell you! M10 is 2 level above the DJI.
    If we talk about prices and worth sure DJI Ronin is unbeatable.Call me as a rich or dumbass i would gladly pay 5K over ronin and get M10! i know karma would hit me back with spinal disc herniation and cost me more than 5K..
     
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  6. Abad AxeRosa

    Abad AxeRosa New Member

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    I received my Ronin about 2 months ago and have to say I am very pleased with it.

    Within 2 days of delivery I had it on my cable rig doing LIVE broadcast. Canon C300, Highlights here:

    I had used a MoVi M10 once before, and it had an issue where it would abruptly tilt up. It happened once on air. Not good.

    The Ronin payed for itself, 5 times over, the first time I used it. So, I give it a thumbs up.

    I also just recently flew it on my Steadicam. Again, I was very impressed. It takes modifying ones operating a bit, but very pleased and intrigued by the new techniques that will be discovered and developed.
    [​IMG]

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204878684064847&l=c17c0e6597

    Abad Rosa
    www.gatocrane.com
     
  7. philip holwerda

    philip holwerda New Member

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    Of course other companies are going to follow the innovation of the freefly movi and of course it will be cheaper in price, when you copy someone you wouldn't so hot selling at the same price as the real deal. As far as actual differences the ronin is ALLOT heavier, fatigue will set in allot sooner and let me tell ya, certain moves require strength and I wouldn't want more weight especially considering multi rotor copters trying to keep weight down is huge.
     
  8. Matt Sharp

    Matt Sharp Member

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    Copy is a strong word, especially when dji was the first to market with direct drive brushless gimbals for multirotors.

    The freefly products are excellent, but so is the Ronin. There is no doubt that the additional weight of the Ronin makes it harder to operate handheld, but you're only paying more for less weight and the ability to fly it.

    Freefly only confirmed the validity of the Ronin with the price drop.
     
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  9. philip holwerda

    philip holwerda New Member

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    not to bash the Ronin, it is still a quality product, just mentioning the reasons for the price drop. The innovation isn't just the brushless gimbals, the innovation freefly brought to the table was implementing it into a hand held device. I do like DJI, they have some really cool products too. I'm a fan of hand held gimbals in general and any high end video production equipment. (toys :)
     
    Jeremiah Kaynor likes this.
  10. Jeremiah Kaynor

    Jeremiah Kaynor New Member

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    OK, this is JUST my experience so far.

    I have had nothing but great success with our Ronin and trust me, it has gone through a LOT so far. I even just got back from taking it to Kenya and where I shot 15 videos in 2 weeks including 3 music videos and never had any problems. I agree that it is a good 5 lbs heavier then the Movi, but I am not holding it for 20 minutes at a time either. The shots take less than 3-5 min and its back on the stand or C-stand. The battery life on there is insane as well. They say 4 hours of life but I have shot all day with it and still had 1/4 charge left when I got home and it only take about 15-20 min to charge. Also, setup and balance is really easy. We wanted to test it and see how long it would take to build a RED Epic with the Ronin and DJI Lightbridge, then and have it balanced and ready to shoot... It was 23 minutes from the time we pulled the Epic and Ronin out of their cases till it was up and ready to start filming. We changed 4 different lenses and never rebalanced it. Just tured up the motor stiffness a hair when we put the really heavy lens on.

    We have used it with a Canon 5D, BM, C100, Nikon D4, Nikon D5300 and it has ALWAYS been easy and works like a dream. As for being sturdy, trust me, the thing was dusty as HELL and put through the ringer in Kenya. A LOT of the filming was done in the slums of Kisumu where NOTHING gets away clean.

    We also use it with our Kraken K130 Octo as well. Its nice to be able to pop it right off after doing aerial and going right into hand held. We also have a really cool mount that is allows us to put the Ronin on our car mount, our cable rig and a crane (which with the 2nd op controller, it produces some crazy badass shots!)

    All in all, I am VERY happy with the Ronin. I have personally been on sets with Movi crews and they are also amazing pieces of equipment. I do like the fact that they are half the weight. That is a HUGE plus. I think it is all going to come down to who prefers what. I am not going judge anyone for not liking a Ronin over a Movi. Its all personal opinion. I just will give my experience with the equipment and that's it.

    Blessings to ya and Happy filming.
     
  11. Trevor Rogers

    Trevor Rogers Member

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    I have had two jobs with my M10 where the crew calls in a panic because their DJI Ronin Broke.. Not sure what they were doing or why the motors burnt out. "their words not mine" But that makes me wonder how reliable they are..

    Either way its kinda a status thing for me as well. I would rather show up to set with a MoVI then anything else. Kinda like I would rather show up with a Steadycam rather then a Glidecam.. Or for audio people I would rather show up with lectrosonic lavs then sennheiser lavs. and so on.. Now there was a time when I was just a film student starting out and a lot of my work was smaller jobs.. But thats not so much the case anymore.. I work for national companies and big film studios who know gear.. And if it can just help my reputation by owning that name brand item.. Then its a small price to pay IMO, I wish the world did not work that way but it does. So I embrace it. :)

    When you Own gear to rent you want what everyone wants.. And its the name brand stuff.. Usually the people who were first on the market much like steady cam. With gimbals thats the MoVI. Its embarrassing to show up on a big movie shoot with something less then PAR. And from my clients point of view usually ronins rent for around the same price

    When you just own gear to do your own projects sure buy whats cheap after all your the one paying yourself usually.
     
  12. Wayne Mann

    Wayne Mann Member

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    All brands of equipment are subject to failures. I have a Ronin, which I love and I will own an M10 in the very near future. What you are not addressing is the fact that by now there are probably two to three times as many Ronins being used therefore you are going to hear about more failures due to simple math. Furthermore you have no idea whether those two Ronins were abused or whether they simply just had faulty motors. Anyone who shows up on a relatively serious set and doesn't have a backup for all of their equipment is not a professional and deserves to have failures. I show up with backups for everything because the truth is stuff breaks. Airlines break crap on a daily basis, even when it is packed really well. Ask me how I know this.

    Three of my smaller gimbals are based on Alexmos 32 bit control boards and they do an excellent job assuming you are using them on a well designed mount, which there are very, very few of. I have never had one of those boards fail, but on a 1.5 week long job two weeks ago while flying at a Marina one of the high powered boat communication radios was keyed up too close to me and the gimbal started freaking out. It worked fine for the next couple shots then decided that it's life was over and stopped working. No big deal as I had two more gimbals ready to go.

    Production companies and Hollywood should require subcontractors such as yourself and me to have backups for all of their equipment. I am actually stunned that they don't, especially Hollywood. Actually I think I will start including that fact in my marketing material.

    Have a great day.


    Wayne Mann
    www.HeliCamHDmedia.com
     
  13. James Adkins

    James Adkins Member

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    For handheld work the Ronin will get the job done. For drone filming it never makes sense to carry more weight than you have to so the Ronin is a very poor choice.
     
  14. Wayne Mann

    Wayne Mann Member

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    The ONLY thing that matters is the quality of the shot that you captured. The extra weight of the Ronin or any heavy gimbal means nothing IF you got the shot you wanted and the quality of the video meets the Clients needs. By your logic why use anything other than a Phantom and a GoPro 4.

    If you have to use bigger props and larger batteries so be it. Weight does not matter. Video quality is the only thing that matters, period.

    It is getting really tiring hearing that everything has to be made from carbon fiber, And, contrary to popular belief the carbon parts do not have to be holed out to take as much weight out of the part as possible. This only serves to make the part weak and flexible.

    Wayne Mann
     
  15. James Adkins

    James Adkins Member

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    The total weight could mean everything if rules impose stiffer requirements for heavier rigs. Quality needs are dictated by client or project needs. Added weight can reduce system reliability and safety margins. Quality isn't the only consideration.
     
  16. Wayne Mann

    Wayne Mann Member

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    Right now it looks like 55 pounds is going to be the limit. My Octo with a Ronin and Epic is 34 pounds 2 ounces. I was wrong in my statement, weight does matter if you are a novice and have no idea what you are doing. I have plans to acquire a Movi M10 in the very near future, but it is not because of it's weight advantage over a Ronin.


    Wayne Mann
     
  17. James Adkins

    James Adkins Member

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    Weight matters for anyone if it falls on your head.

    Just curious what you think the Movi has that the Ronin doesn't.
     
  18. Wayne Mann

    Wayne Mann Member

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    The only issue with the Ronin, other than the added weight is it has quite a bit more horizon drift in sideways maneuvers than my Alexmos based GH4 gimbals. Movi's have roughly the same amount of horizon drift as my Alexmos boards so when I have to use someone other than my primary camera man I would probably lean towards the Movi assuming I am flying an Epic or similar weight camera. My primary camera man is really good at flying roll axis when needed, but that is a very rare skill set for a camera mount operator. If DJI would fix the issue, which I seriously doubt that they can given the horizon issues that they have with their other mounts I wouldn't even consider a Movi. But on the other hand Movi's have gained a good reputation and we have rented them before when requested to do so. Now that the price is somewhat in line with where is should be they make more business since, at least to me.


    Wayne Mann
     
  19. Joe Lawry

    Joe Lawry Member

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    Just sold my Ronin and Bought a Movi. Not going back, ever.
     
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  20. Senthil Nathan

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    Good for you Joe Lawry.
     

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