Dji Ronin?

Discussion in 'MōVI M10' started by Sam Fleishman, Apr 8, 2014.

  1. Jason Toth

    Jason Toth Active Member

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    Its going to be hard for Freefly to compete w/ the Ronin's crazy low pricepoint - not sure how the heck they are able to mill aluminum and do soft/hardware for this cheep - must be made just over cost, to get sales for other DJI items.

    Now that the market has shifted, lowering the Movi price to compete is a total burn for early adopters - if they do decide a price change, hope they appreciate and show loyalty all the ones who helped fund their venture.

    I'm wishful that Freefly gives all current M10 owners a M15 upgrade at no cost, lowers the price on the M10 and the M15 fills its current price point + an in iOS app! - that would keep them in the game & keep customers a bit longer.

    $14k is very expensive for some carbon and machined aluminum... the controller hardware/software does work beautify & that's what they have going for themselves - it just works and nothing can match it ... yet?

    I realize the M10 market share is super small so it costs more to produce and it was the 1st brushless gimbal on the market for a Red... but for 14k you can buy a pretty nice used car, heck a new one, few downhill mountain bikes, new skidoo snowmobile, 11oz of gold, 15 rottweilers, 25 surfboards, Andy Warhol’s wig, an army of Phantoms, and a bunch of other $hit like 1250 sharks w/ lasers :)

    Curious how this gimbal war will turn out, by the looks of it... its going to be total annihilation - especially when the Ronin goes to Jenny Craig for drones, uas's, uav's, octocopters, helicams, multi-what ever you want to call them.
     
  2. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

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    ^dude that was amazing
     
  3. Jason Comparetto

    Jason Comparetto Active Member

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    Yes I'm curious how this gimbal war will turn out as well..
     
  4. Angus Benson-Blair

    Angus Benson-Blair Active Member

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    DJI well what can I say. Their products, when working are genuinely hard to beat but the big bit is 'when' they are working which often they are not. With that said, it is clear that the gimbal market is pretty huge in relation to Pro MR rigs so perhaps DJI have got the Ronin right- it will be interesting to see how it fairs in real use.

    The price has me puzzled thought given that the price point seems to be that of a normal Zen or not that far off.

    The one area where the M10 will still be king by a long way is in the air- no way a Ronin's weight is going to let it be a patch on the M10 in the air
     
  5. Jason Toth

    Jason Toth Active Member

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    Price:
    For 14k you expect it to work perfectly, which the Movi pretty much does!
    For 3k you should expect it to be subpar like an alexmos (works but pain in in the ass).
    BUT if the Ronon is close to Movi - heck even Zenmuze quality, then Freefly better start making UAVs again & get Synapse out the door - cuz the games over. It sucks the Movi is expensive for what it is (few hundred in materials + a hell of a lot of programing/mechanical design - should be more practical around 8-10k including a real radio, case, multiple larger batteries, real charger "the extras the Movi comes with is hobby grade garbage!", what sucks even worse DJI just dropped a price bomb and looks to kill the gimbal market.

    Weight:
    The Ronins weight on a drone is not an issue any more. Our rigs lift 40-50lbs easily for 10-12 minutes... so if the Ronin works as advertised, throwing an extra 5lbs on our drone to save 10 grand is a no brainer. And if weight is an issue, spend another 1-2k to re-machine parts for it + use for some 1.5mm carbon - then its still only 5k which could probably shed 1-3 lbs.
     
  6. Senthil Nathan

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    As an M10 owner I am waiting on Freefly to surprise me with something in their M15 upgrade. Hope they do something amazing to turn things around again. They always do....
     
  7. Constantine Tyrintzis

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    First video with the latest prototype Serene version for vertical stabilization for the Movi.

    Was shoot with the purelly mechanical gimbal Gravity One, Easyrig 3 600N, SERENE spring arm for the easyrig, and camera load + gimbal 15 kgr. There is no electronic gyrostabilization, or gyros, or any post stabilisation , and this is purelly demonstating the abiliity of the Serene arm to stabilise walking vertical errors from slow walking to running shots, eliminating them and add the 4th axis needed for all gimbals and Movi to create a solid rock stabilised shot, using the easyrig.More videos to come very sortly , this one was a fast first shot with a 35 mm lens.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10203428405265057&set=o.422670997876798&type=2&theater
     
  8. Brett Harrison

    Brett Harrison Active Member

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    The Ronin is an aggressive reply to the MoVI, not an innovative market leader.

    The extra weight will be a thing, trust me. The Freefly gimbal is a handheld device. It's light yet reliable and resilient. Connect the gimbal to a vest if you want, but say goodbye to many shots the device is made for. As a gimbal operator, you're taken on set because of what you can do that previous devices cannot.

    There are classes of gimbal operator. For some shots you don't need one (except to set up the equipment) but for others you need an athlete operator, using only their body to translate the gimbal through space effectively. Such operators are going to choose the MoVI.

    The entire system has to work well. The beauty of the movement and the human interface matter the most - particularly on the big screen. Majestic mode is very significant. There's 'good enough', and there's 40,000 dollar production days.

    Also consider the advanced software features, the upcoming features (like translation compensation) and the incredible run the device and the company have had the last 10 months since the commercial release. That all matters in the professional realm.

    Freefly focus on cinema and have demonstrated a desire and propensity to innovate. Just give them a moment to calculate and I am sure you'll be surprised what they do. They're smart cookies and ultra competitive with a long vision.
     
  9. Eric Ulbrich

    Eric Ulbrich Member

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    Hey guys,
    So ive seen alot of discussion regarding Movi vs Ronin in the past few months. I thought I would share with you guys my thoughts regarding both. To be clear I have worked with both systems now, (I do own a movi, however I have attempted to be as impartial as possible in weighing each rigs Strength's / Weaknesses.) Again, these thoughts are simply my observations; take em or leave em.

    My first impression regarding the Ronin, its balls heavy. Like really heavy. As someone who primarily operates handheld for 10-12 hours a day this is a major factor for me. The Movi is just lighter, its less strain on the body and allows me to focus the weight on building the best, balanced, camera package.

    The Movi is far more modular and customizable than the Ronin. All the parts on the movi I can easily work with industry standard speed rail, aluminum pipe. To me the movi is "hackable" whereas the ronin is not. Want to put a longer camera load on your ronin? Too bad, as they only allow for a fixed length (although I have been told they will make longer roll arms...tbd.) Have a battery go down on you, with the movi, one can run to a local hobby-shop and pickup a new one, simple. With DJI's proprietary battery, you may be able to find them but they are going to be far harder than what freefly uses for their rig. I can strip the rig down, mount it to a jib, steadi, car ect with far greater ease than the Ronin.

    The tuning features and customization is un-beatable. Freefly has put more thought into aiding the operator by putting a vast set of options and tuning adjustments into the apps they have developed. The ronin feels very limited to me. (yes you have ios support, but IMHO android is far more powerful and useable for this kind of operation.) I have been an ios guy since the first gen iphone, and while I do love it, the android has allowed me to do things that are not possible with Ios. Recently I upgraded my firmware on my m10 entirely through my android device (something that i do not believe ios can do.)

    Freefly are amazing at customer service. Ive never been left in the dark regarding an issue I have had or a question ive needed answered. Ive even had a few items break on me and freefly have been able to resolve the issue within 12-24 hrs. To me its not just about the price-point when it comes to a rig, but its about the backbone that comes along with it. The people and the company is also what your buying into; and that will ultimately keep a rig working for a long time.

    One final note;

    It's interesting because many of the guys and gals who purchased a ronin over a movi like to rub the price point in your face like they are the smartest guys in the room for saving money. But honestly, would you do the same thing if you were buying a steadicam? Or a remote head? I've spent the 15k on the rig and prob put another 10-12k in aks into it and couldn't be happier. All I know is no matter what when I get to set my rig is tuned and reliable as well as I have the support to back it.



    That IMHO is priceless.
     
  10. Senthil Nathan

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    Could not have said it better.
     
  11. DanDeSilva

    DanDeSilva Member

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    As we draw closer the the ronin turning up in more places we will start to see how it will fair.
    Im not saying there all like this, but here is a QC issue already.
     
  12. Charles Lim

    Charles Lim Member

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  13. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Dan we can't see your video since it is set to private.
     
  14. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

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    Sure looks purty with all those fancy red thumbscrews. Gotta get me some red thumbscrews. Probably makes a big difference.
    Need. More. Bling.

    #LMAO
     
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  15. Gary McCready

    Gary McCready Active Member

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    Gary: You can watch it at Vimeo, just not here I think?
    Allsteady" An Alexmos with all it's quirks, which many of us have experienced.

    Being a "Hobbyist" and not a pro like many of you, I've been waiting for a price point that I thought was reasonable. I just couldn't
    see spending 5-10K to fly a $1000 camera. I've been getting my feet wet with a (don't laugh too hard) Tarot Gopro, and a DYS Nex-5 3-axis. The Tarot, for $190 is darn good right out of the box. The DYS, with an Alexmos 8-bit has been a constant PID fiddling enterprise. Since I'm retired, I have the time. Truth is, if I could fly the Ronin, on a Cinestar 8 or DJI S1000, I'd buy one. A Movi M5
    is quite a bit more expensive, for a few problems, I'd tolerate the $2000 savings.

    I think the real game changer here will not be in the hardware, almost anyone can do that. A self-tuning controller board
    will be the real game changer>>
    Upcoming Alexmos Firmware 2.42 with Auto Tune
    Posted on July 28, 2014 by Aerialpixels in Info, New Products, News
    The next release of Alexmos Firmware update 2.42 will bring Auto Tune feature that will make tuning much easier on future builds.
     
  16. DanDeSilva

    DanDeSilva Member

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    Hey Gary, yeah it's weird. You can click 'watch on Vimeo' and it plays.
     
  17. Juha Knaapi

    Juha Knaapi New Member

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    Theres quite a few cases of bad quality control with Ronin popping on RedUser, too wide camera plates, paint scratching off while balancing the camera with those red thumbscrews and on software side some odd roll stability issues.

    Someone might see this as a case of schadenfreude?
     
  18. Andrea Cecchini

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    I don't guess the Dji Ronin so light!! 5.2kg
     

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  19. Senthil Nathan

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    You the real MVP....
     
  20. Rob Drewett

    Rob Drewett Member

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    I sent this last week and did not get a response, I think it is time we start getting some questions answered!
    Hi Tabb,
    I hope all is well.
    In the last week the DJI Ronin has made quite an impact at the NHU BBC. Various productions are now investing
    in the DJI Ronin with the cheap price tag, the large payload (16lbs) and the ease in the ability to use it as a hot head.
    This has put me in a difficult situation, I now no longer have something that no one else has got.
    And although I knew at some stage this would happen I did not expect the leading competitor to be so cheap and give so much more.
    I am getting asked what can the MoVI do that the DJI Ronin can not and at the moment I am struggling to answer, could you please help me?
    I know the MoVI is lighter and Freefly has great customer service but try telling a production they should rent mine out for 30 days when they could buy 2 Ronins for the same price, is extremely hard
    Also I am having a hard time working out why I should pay $3000 + P&P for an upgrade when it is more expensive than a whole DJI Ronin rig and this comes with a nice Peli style case.
    The MoVI controller looks amazing and this is an angle I am trying to sell, that the precision of the MoVI is far superior but at $3500 I am again finding this a bit steep as yet again you could buy another DJI Ronin rig for the same.
    As an early pre-sales buyer I still a great supporter of Freefly equipment but I feel it is time for you to now deliver a bit more to your loyal customers, I have to stay competitive to give me the edge.
    Regards
    Rob

     

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