Disappointed!!!

Discussion in 'ALTA 8' started by Roger Fosaas, Mar 26, 2016.

  1. Fabien Deregel

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    Hi Christen,

    the Gremsy gimbals are OK but i think a few details are missing in the assembly for higher reliability. I guess they will come with add ons in the future, but right now the Movi still has higher specs and performances.
    Now, about the Alta and custom made frames, i understand what you mean, having ESC and motors temp / vibration reports can help if something starts to go wrong in flight, there are some details you can miss with a " standard" custom rig when you do not have these infos that can lead to serious troubles the next flight..
    This is not a matter of having a good build or not (i'm the first to say it's important to bring a lot of care in building machines..), but i'm not inside the motor ball bearings or propeller structures during flight so fancy gadget might help some day :))
    Regarding flight controller, the one in the Alta is bulletproof, a lot of time has been spent in this flight controller before it reached the market, believe me..
    I guess you fly with a AS 8X from Coptersquad ( Carboncore Cortex frames) ?
    If you need more flight time, get rid of standard ESC's :)

    Best regards,
    Fabien
     
  2. Thai Christen

    Thai Christen Member

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    Hi Fabien,

    Digicopter sent me footage flying Red Weapon and the new Gremsy H7 and it looks great. Gimbal was holding even at fast speed. So maybe you should test their latest models. Or check out their Facebook.
    However, it is very interesting to see your Esc amp test. Are these Zenon Esc for sale? Would be curious to test them on my next build.

    And yes, I use Carboncore X8 frame but modified/customized it to my need. So nothing 'standard' really. I have been flying this setup for the last 18 months with Dji Wookong FC without any problems. Rock solid. Every cable is shortened, components etc. are stripped down to what is only neccessary (No OSD, FPV only occasionally). The only thing important are telemetry to my Futaba (battery voltage and vario mainly).
    If something is wrong inflight, I land and take my second copter (no downtime on set. Check problem later). As for motors I replace them completely. And Esc are very robust and can withstand a lot IMO. I also build and fly FPV race copters and never had to replace an Esc even after many crashes.
    As I said, my setup is rock solid, thus never troubled with funky measurements. Only on one copter, I noticed some play in the bearing in three motors. Decided to replace all 8 motors with new ones.
    I also have a complete Wookong as spare part that goes with. Complete replacement of FC can be done within 1h. Big advantage of a custom self build.
    Not sure about the Alta, can you replace motor/esc etc. by yourself or do you have to send in the whole copter? Would be a big bummer.

    Nevertheless, I am very happy with my current setup. I don't see many configurations alike flying Red that get this much flight time with only 2x 4500 lipos and 15/16 prop mix. With 3x 4500 I get about 2min more. I can do 4x 4500 but it is getting less efficient.
    The only way (for the moment) to get more flight time is bring down weight. E.g lighter gimbal like Gremsy H7.

    Best,
    Thai
     
    #62 Thai Christen, May 24, 2016
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
  3. Ozkan Erden

    Ozkan Erden Distributor

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    Let me tell you my experience about Gremsy gStabi H14: Horizon hold was very bad. Tilt motor was stepping (Gremsy accepted this issue) and the result was millions far away from Movi. For professional wise, it was unusable for me.

    They have changed the motor and encoders on H16&H7 and I trust the guys from Digicopter. If they say an equipment is good, it's good. But H14 was far away to be a part of a production equipment.

    For support wise, you can find a tech guy from Gremsy online on Skype, ready to help you. For my H14 problem, they even sent the second unit but it had exactly the same issues. So it was a general H14 issue. But Gremsy didn't call back the H14 gimbals to change motors&encoders which forced us to shelf the gimbal forever. I couldn't use the gimbal even for once. Just test flights. I believe Freefly would recall the gimbals back if they had such an issue.

    BUT, for Movi:

    It's almost impossible to use it for fast side tracking shots with cine gear. Freefly is not addressing or acknowledging the issue to customers about this. On the other hand, H16 pan motor holds even at 80 km/h. So, here is the dilemma. As a user with bad experience gStabi H14, I am afraid to try the H16. But, I have to find a solution for fast tracking shots either with Ronin MX or H16. Freefly doesn't even respond.

    There are ups and downs for every product & company.
     
  4. Thai Christen

    Thai Christen Member

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    If you check Digicopter Facebook, you see a recent post where they trashed their self made gimbal 'digimove' which they have been using successfully in the past years. They said that they are moving to something better: Gremsy H6/16/7. That means a lot. However, they also mentioned that they will customized Gremsy gimbals to their own need. Not sure what kind of modifications they are talking about.
    Nevertheless, I am sure Gremsy has learned and their products have matured since the launch of H14.

    Movi pan motor is a major problem. When I do fast car chasing (up to 80km/h) I try to fly the copter in an angle less than 90 degree to the car. Not ideal (since some shot you must fly parallel to the car) but it helps reducing the force on the pan motor. I still get a lot of bumps in my footage at this speed which have to be post-stabilized.
     
    #64 Thai Christen, May 26, 2016
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
  5. Fabien Deregel

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    Hi, as Ozkan said, all products have cons and pros.

    One thing that is sure, is that whichever gimbal you will go for, it will have it's limitation reached in some speeds and orientation. THis is just because electronics, as good as it is, can not cure the lacks in mechanical designs. Everybody does exactly the same thing and relies on BL motors with encoders, but if they did all dig a bit more they would find solutions to go further ;)

    I prefer custom builds also for multi rotors but well there are needs for every kind of available hardware including the Alta :)

    Regarding the ESC's, infos will be released in a few weeks but on my website or FB page, as said in another thread, FreeFly forum is not a place to advertise our stuffs, videos where there just to show what can be achieved with the controversed U7 490KV with the right controller :)
    Best regards,
    Fabien
     
  6. Neil Cain

    Neil Cain Member

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    Has anyone managed to configure the Run/Stop sync between RT Motion MK 3.1 & any Red DSMC2 camera's? I'm plugged into a Red Scarlet W & have been trying to figure it out with RT Motion over the phone but they are a bit stumped. We know that Red has changed so that you need to select Arri rather than Red in the menu of the hand unit but we cannot successfully configure the Red GPIO menu to make it work.
    The lights are changing as they should on the receiver & hand unit, but the camera only triggers record when we unplug the sync cable!
     
    Aj White likes this.
  7. Thai Christen

    Thai Christen Member

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    Quick update:
    I finally pulled the trigger and bought the Gremsy H7 (with Canlink). I can only say, WOW, this gimbal works OUT OF THE BOX and hold all my expectations.
    With my Movi M5 I never got the gains and settings right (still get bumps in the footage with heavy payload and flying at higher speed). In contrary, auto tune on the Gremsy already gives me very decent footage (same payload and flying speed). By adding about 5-10 basis points in the gains setting in each axis I get butterly smooth footage. And no horizontal drift! The time of trial and error with gain settings is finally over!

    So after two days of testing I took the Gremsy along with my Movi for a TVC where I covered aerial shots. I can tell you that my Movi stayed in the case untouched for the three days shoot. I shot with my X8, Red Scarlet Weapon, Gremsy H7 and Leica-R cinemod primes (28, 35, 50) @ 2500m altitude with moderate wind. When the director and producer reviewed the footage on big screen they could not believe how smooth the footage is. No post stabilization needed.

    I also had a set of Kowa Anamorphics with me and tested the setup with a Kowa 50 (lens weight about 1kg). Full speed at 80km/h no problem. Also sideways at full speed, the gimbal holds very well.

    And last, Gremsy support team was always very helpful and answered all my questions.

    Conclusion: My Movi has served me well in the past two years (although I had to modify it in order to work the way I want). I was very happy with the Movi. But it is time to move on to an even better product.

    Edit: I got the measurements of payload wrong in the first place. Put every single item on a weighing scale and numbers look right now.
    FACT SHEET:
    -X8 with WKM, U5, 15/16 props mix, 2x 4500 6s
    - Payload 6.5kg (Gremsy H7, Red Scarlet Weapon, Kowa 50 Anamorphic, Amimon Connex, 3800 4S )
    - Total take off weight 11.8kg
    - Flight time mix (full speed and normal) 6:30 min
    - Max flight speed approx 80Km/h (22-23m/s) depends on wind
     
    #67 Thai Christen, Aug 16, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
    Mateusz Hajdziony likes this.
  8. Aj White

    Aj White Member

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    Might want to make your own post so it's not hidden here. I just got the RT Motion and was wondering the same thing... will try on a Weapon soon.
     
  9. Semiond mathieu

    Semiond mathieu New Member

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    Hu guys,

    Alta 6 is 12000€ in euripe and alta 8 is 17000, better buy an hammer x8 at kopterworx or a gryphon x8, better payload for less money...
     
    Thai Christen likes this.
  10. Pete Maughan

    Pete Maughan Member

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    I've had good results with my H16 and with my M5, where Freefly wins easily is the software and the day after day usage. Gremsy apps are very poor, the IOS app is unusable and will cause you problems if not now, soon.
     
    Humberto Barchini likes this.
  11. Thai Christen

    Thai Christen Member

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    I am not sure what you are talking about. Maybe you are using an older version of the app?

    In the 1.5 months that I have been using my Gremsy H7 day in and out (I bought 2 pieces), no issues at all. And software? Heck, I never touch it unless I have to change lens. Then I just go into software and load the profile for the camera/lens combo (which I previously set with auto tune function). That's it. Why care about the app if everything works.
    I get very smooth footage even flying at full speed (80km/h) with Red Weapon and Kowa Anamorphic 50. Try that with a Mövi M5! In fact, I could not even balance Weapon with Kowa on my M5. Impossible.

    And yes, I have spent too much time with Freefly software trying to figure out the right gain settings. Never worked 100% with heavy payload.

    I see the software thing a little bit like consulting a manual. If a product is good, it becomes secondary.
     
  12. Thai Christen

    Thai Christen Member

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    And a few words regarding Gremsy support. I promise, this is the last post I will praise for Gremsy.

    I know some of you have had bad experience in the past.
    Well, I can only tell you that my experience is outstanding.

    One of my two H7 arrived with faulty roll motor. After a short skype session with their support team they sent me a new H7 right away, which I received 3 days later (from Vietnam to Switzerland!). Once I received the replacement they asked me to return the faulty gimbal. I mean how good is that. Most company would ask you to send back the faulty item for inspection first. Gremsy nope.

    I also bought their new 4s 6800 batteries which only weights 400gr! However, I find that the gimbal shuts down motors to early when battery reach a certain voltage due to firmware. I power my Red, Connex and gimbal l with the same battery and while Red and Connex are still running fine, gimbal shuts down. I contacted them asking if they could release beta firmware with lower power cut off so the gimbal can run longer. After one week they sent me beta firmware I asked for.

    Also communication is very good and helpful with direct email contact (not via admin or stuff like that).

    How many of you have asked for features, improvements and such at Freefly? And the results?
     
    #72 Thai Christen, Sep 4, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  13. Pete Maughan

    Pete Maughan Member

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    No, newest version. Gremsy know of the problems and advised me not to use it. Of course you need to make changes frequently to get the best from the gimbal, every job is slightly different so you can't possibly have every eventuality as a profile. The last time I used the IOS app it unmapped the radio channels and set all values to zero. Take note of your accelerometer values....
     
  14. Thai Christen

    Thai Christen Member

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    I am very sorry to hear. You said you have H16. Maybe H7 is different because it is their latest model Gremsy might have improved the internals. I don't know.
    I can only speak for my experience with H7, and it works great, no problems at all also with iOS app.
    And speaking of making changes for every job, I mainly use it for aerial and there are not many eventualities I can think of. Most important thing are the gains. For every cam/lens combo I set my gains at the highest possible for flying in strong wind and high speed (auto tune and add about 10-15 basis points in each axis). Once you got this right, no more changes. And you can have as many profiles as you wish.
    E.g. for my Weapon and 6 lenses I have 12 profiles. 6 for flying in Solo mode (which requires different channel mappings) and 6 for dual operation.
     
  15. Semiond mathieu

    Semiond mathieu New Member

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    which copter and configuration are you using Thai ?
     
  16. Thai Christen

    Thai Christen Member

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    Custom build X8 with Wookong M

    And nope, I don't have altitude drop with Wookong because it is customized. I found a workaround. :)
     
    #76 Thai Christen, Sep 5, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2016
  17. Jason Herring

    Jason Herring Member

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    Hi Thai, thanks so much for all the info on the gimbal. How did you get rid of the drop on the wkm?
     
  18. Thai Christen

    Thai Christen Member

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    You are welcome.
    Well, it is a combination of different factors like motor/props combo, placement of IMU, internal air flow, gains settings.
     
  19. Dejan Mugosa

    Dejan Mugosa Member

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    There is no workaround. And I am viling to bet on this. Its just how it goes.

    If you are flying gh4 or similar with MTOW under 10kg. With 500KV plus motors and high pitch props. Then its not that noticable but still exists.
    If you have MTOW off 18kg then there is no way to fix it.
     
  20. alexandre ermel

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    Hi Jeff what voltage you are landing to get 14/15min with the 10.000 batteries?
     

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