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Cinestar 8 Upgrade for Medium Heavy Lift (8-10kg)

Discussion in 'Cinestar 8' started by Steve Maller, Jan 3, 2014.

  1. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Steve did you solder the header on the board to connect your MK USB board?
     
  2. Howard Dapp

    Howard Dapp Active Member

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    Michael, do you know the props size your friend intend to use and the AUW of his copter? Thanks.
     
  3. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

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    I have the FamousHobby mounts, but to tell you the truth, I haven’t even opened the box from KDE yet. Too much terrestrial work! :oops:
     
  4. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

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    No. Holger’s photos show that you can get a header and bend the pins so that they snug themselves onto the 10 pads on the PDB long enough to do the firmware upgrade. Takes about 10-20 seconds per BL. But you have to be careful to get it aligned properly, and remember that when you turn the PDB over, the connecter has to go upside down, too.

    And there’s no need to use the FC or anything else. I took the board off the copter, disconnected everything, my bench supply powered up the PDB all by itself, and the upgrade was uneventful.
     
  5. MIke Magee

    MIke Magee Active Member

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    Howard, It's a new X8 rig which is just parts in the mail at this point, so I'm not sure about the AUW yet. I spoke with the tech (Chris) at KDE and said that I'll be running two separate gimbals, probably the M5 and the Famous M10 knock off eventually. I project the AUW will therefore vary between 19 and 25 lbs. He suggested the 4014's based on this.

    To start I'm going to experiment with both the apc 18X5 and 16X5 and vary the boom lengths a bit. Maybe a 3rd set with a bit more pitch. Then I'll dial in the Xoars that make sense.

    Also, Mike, the KDE metal brackets are not applicable, so I got the FH mounts.

    Always open to suggestions. Mr. McVay knows that for sure.
    -m

     
  6. Ozkan Erden

    Ozkan Erden Distributor

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    I also did the upgrade for BL Ctrl 3.0. The motors start better but it can be psychological. There is no change in flight behaviour. The motors are Avroto 3520.
     
  7. Ozkan Erden

    Ozkan Erden Distributor

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    Hey Steve,

    Did you make any progress? I'm wondering about the KDE 4012 performance.
     
  8. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

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    Still on my bench. My phone has been ringing off the hook and I’ve been shooting non-stop for weeks now...soon, I hope.
     
  9. MIke Magee

    MIke Magee Active Member

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    Nice problem to have Steve.

     
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  10. Aj White

    Aj White Member

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    Wonderful thread to follow! Giving me ideas for my upgrade. I have one question though... I went and built an X8 right off the bat using U5's and A2 FC (don't hit me)... I am now thinking of going flat 8 because of efficiency of thrust and redundancy/safety when flying around our RED Epic. Can I hear your reasons for going X8? I actually love the way mine feels and flies but thinking it might be easier on my components if it was in the flat configuration.
     
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  11. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

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    There are a few reasons for going X8 vs flat...
    • you can use much larger props with a coax while still keeping relatively short arms (makes transporting the copter much easier)
    • you don’t have to worry about the frontmost boom getting in so many shots (can still happen with other booms when you use a 3-axis because the lower props are considerably lower)
    • there may be some advantage WRT maneuverability, but this is anecdotal. i have noticed that my X8 copters descend more smoothly and handle slightly better in the wind.
    • the loss in thrust can be more than compensated for by using larger motors and props
    • lastly, you can do more interesting things with battery mounting (like I did) when you have fewer booms :D
    This is just my $0.02. And worth every penny.
     
  12. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

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    Happily, I have been able to dive back in. Today, I reassembled the copter. Got the new KDE 4012 motors mounted up, wired them in, and tested them. Sounds very smooth with the new MK BL firmware in motor test. No shuddering, and very smooth, even with my anemic bench supply (only goes to 18V at 2A). Updated the FC 2.5 firmware to 2.06a without incident. Will update Navi board tomorrow, as well as doing some more tests. I have 16”, 17” and 18” CF props to test. Hoping to find the sweet spot for these motors WRT thrust and hover, etc.
    IMG_9667.jpg
     
  13. Aj White

    Aj White Member

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    Thanks, yeah those are all basically the reasons I went that route in the beginning. I eagerly await your prop tests, I am running the T-Motor 15/5 right now and maybe I should think bigger. My AUW is also 22-24lbs.
     
  14. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

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    Dave King is using U5s with a flat 8 and 16” props (I think) and getting really good performance. You want to be careful going with larger props...some motor configs get less efficient with larger props.
     
  15. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Yes I'm using U5's with a flat 8 and tiger 16X5.4 props at 25.5 AUW. Hover throttle is 61%.
     
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  16. Aj White

    Aj White Member

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    Do you think it would hurt your performance going X8? I guess I need to suck it up and buy some extra arms and props and do some testing!
     
  17. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    My current setup would not be able to use a X8 at the GAW of 25.5 pounds. The lost of 10-15% efficiency would put the throttle needed to maintain hover too high. Going to 17 inch props with the U5 motors would not increase my efficiency. The only way I could go with a X8 in my opinion is to reduce weight or find a more powerful motor.
     
  18. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

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    Update before my maiden with the KDEs:

    I discovered that the motor bell on these new motors is quite wide, and the geometry of my 17” props is slightly different, both of which combine to require a spacer in between the prop and the motor bell. See photo.

    But everything looks good, and all of my preflight checks are good. So now I attach the 30 pounds of sandbags and go outside to run up the motors a bit.

    IMG_9679.jpg
     
  19. Gary McCready

    Gary McCready Active Member

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    I think KDE is going to do very well in the US brushless motor market.
     
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  20. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Steve: I'm I correct in thinking those are the Foxtech propellers?

    Andy
     

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