Cinestar 8 + Movi M10, O ring type

Discussion in 'Camera Mount Misc' started by Adam Varadi, Jun 20, 2014.

  1. Adam Varadi

    Adam Varadi Member

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    Hy Guys,

    I'm using the Movi M10 on my Cinestar 8 copter with the stock blue O rings. There were some vibration on the footage, and I tried to reduce the O rings to only 4 on each isolator but it didin't help too much.

    My question is, what are you guys using for Canon 5D + Canon 16-35? Is i possible to get the dampening soo good that no after stabilisation is required?

    Thanks!

    Adam
     
  2. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Can you post an example, Adam? I'm interested to see whether the vibration is high frequency or low frequency.
    Also relevant are such things that will reduce the vibration at source:
    1. Have you balanced all the props?
    2. Have you balanced all the motors?
    3. Do you have standard landing gear on the M10 (folks have found that adding wheels alter the resonant frequencies of the gimbal)?
    4. Have you tweaked the M10's stiffness for airborne use -- the M10 (and M5) need to be tuned for the context in which they are being used -- so tuning for handheld doesn't mean it's tuned for airborne.

    I'm also presuming that you have the camera balance on the gimbal spot on....

    But there is a fundamental truth (Tabb's Law): "If it flies it vibrates."
    But that said, you can minimize the vibration considerably.
    It's certainly possible to get smooth footage that doesn't need post-stab.

    Hope this helps.

    Andy.
     
  3. Adam Varadi

    Adam Varadi Member

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    Hy Andy,

    Thanks for the quick reply.

    Here is the raw footage from and hour ago, in this video there are only 4 rubber O ring on each isolators, and it's quite windy. Here I'm using the Canon 24-70 lens. First you can see it in 24 without stabilizing in the optic, then on 70 without stabilizin, and the on 70 with stabilizing:



    The proprs/motors are balanced properly.
    I'm using the stock landing gear, without gears or anything.
    Yes, it is in Airborn mode.

    The camera is balanced as well as I could. :)
    Interestingly the tilt gain is only on 8, any higher is starting to oscillate. Is this normal?

    I have uploaded a reference photo, it's a bit old, the only difference is in the dampening. On the picture it hase a quick release, but now it has the stock dampeners with the Toad in a Hole quick release. (By the way it is awesome!)
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Adam I fly with 6 blue o-rings in each of the isolators.

    And it looks like you have some type of release device between the Copter isolators and the gimbal. Does that also it's own isolation system.
     
  5. Adam Varadi

    Adam Varadi Member

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    And you have no vibration on the footage?

    Could you show a picture of your copter? (And maybe some raw footage?)

    Adam
     
  6. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Am I right in interpreting the video as there is mostly vibration in the tilt axis? Or do you see vibration in roll and pan?

    Andy
     
  7. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Adam same setup as you have with the exception that prior to having the Toad in the Hole I was attached to the MR kit star plate and then to the isolation dampers directly. Haven't flown since I got the TinH. What are your gain settings on the MoVI? When you set the gains are you hanging the copter so it is suspended in the air? If not how do you set the gains?
     
  8. Adam Varadi

    Adam Varadi Member

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    I did it with the handhelds. :-(
    I will do it again tomorrow on the copter.

    My experience is that before the Movi I had viration issues with the 3 axis CS gimbal. The Movi works much better, but I can't get rid of the vibration. It seems to me that the tilt is the only axis vibrating. If I hit the cameras top gently it can move up and down a bit, and this could happen during flights.

    Please if possible, provide some photos of your copter. Thanks!
     
  9. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    If you were having vibration issues before the MōVI, Adam, that suggests there is a problem with the copter itself -- the booms/motors. However, the real issue is that you can move the camera up and down a bit. You have to try and minimize that movement. Images of your setup would be helpful, especially if you can show the camera as mounted on the gimbal.

    Andy.
     
  10. Adam Varadi

    Adam Varadi Member

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    Hy Andy,

    I made a few pictures of the copter and the Movi. Sadly my 5D is not here today so I made the photos with my iPhone. (If you would like I can take a few pictures with the 5D on the gimbal when I get it back)

    IMG_3021.JPG IMG_3017.JPG IMG_3018.JPG IMG_3019.JPG IMG_3020.JPG IMG_3013.JPG IMG_3014.JPG IMG_3015.JPG IMG_3016.JPG IMG_3008.JPG

    Adam
     
  11. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

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    Adam, why did you remove the upper support bars from the MōVI’s camera cage? If you’re flying a 5D Mark III, it fits on there just fine with the upper and lower bars. That’s the way it’s designed to be used, and that could be part of your problem. If the camera’s not secure, it kind of defeats the purpose of the whole contraption, you know?

    Oops, reading comprehension score: zero. Thought you were using an M5. My bad. :(
     
  12. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Adam try using six blue o rings in each isolator. It may be that when suspended the isolators are bottoming out thus negating and vibration dampening. It would also help if you can answer the questions in post #7.
     
  13. Adam Varadi

    Adam Varadi Member

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    About the gains?

    I will get my camera back in a few hours, and do the tuning from scratch. I will let you know the values and make a sample footage too.

    Adam
     
  14. Adam Varadi

    Adam Varadi Member

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    Hy Guys,

    I did the balancing/tuning again.
    (The videos are very fresh, so maybe not available in HD yet)

    Here is a video showing that when I tilt the camera the roll and Pan axis moves: (Is this normal?)



    Here is a video showing the gains/motors on the software:



    Here is a video from the 5D during flight. The lens is a Canon 24-70. In the video first you see it on 24 then on 70. I know I didn't balace the camera for the 70 vario. I forgot that I had to do it. At the end you can see some more intense movement with the copter. (It was very-very windy, around 20-30 km/h wind) :)



    Here is a video from the GoPro, wich was mounted on the back of the Movi. Funy to see that the gopro's footage is smooter than the 5D. :) Also you can see that the 5D vibrates.

     
  15. Brad Meier

    Brad Meier Active Member
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    Your tilt stiffness is fairly low for a 5D setup. It should be closer to 20-25. Check to see if there is something mechanically loose which would cause you to not be able to get stiffnesses higher than 9. Camera plate, clamps, roll beam bolts, etc. I would check the clamps under the camera first.. If those are a little loose you will see much lower stiffness settings.
     
  16. Adam Varadi

    Adam Varadi Member

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    Hy,

    I checked every screw and they are tight. But it seems like the 5D doesn't lay completly on the metal plate.
    I had higher gains before I sent it back for repair. :-(

    Here is a little vid of the Movi: :)

     
  17. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    That seems pretty well balanced. Do you see oscillation in the Chart settings of the Configurator app, when you select Motors and tap? You should see the "impact" of the tap, but not a sustained oscillation.

    I'm not quite sure what you're seeing when you say that the 5D doesn't lay completely on the metal plate? Are you seeing a air-gap between the base of the 5D and the plate? If so, does that mean either the plate or the base of the 5D is not flat?

    Andy
     
  18. Adam Varadi

    Adam Varadi Member

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    Hy,

    I will check the app tomorow.

    I meant that the 5D's flat bottom is not quite flat. :) It doesn't lay al the way on the plate.
    Is it possible to get another holder for the top on the M10? (like on the M5)

    Adam
     
  19. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

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    I believe that’s coming as part of the M15 upgrade.
     
  20. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    That seems strange. My 5D's base is flat.

    Andy.
     

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