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C300 mounting

Discussion in 'Radian' started by Colin, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. Colin

    Colin Member

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    Since Im still working with the C300 I thought I'd enter this problem here. We have been having major issues with the PAN as I have already described earlier. For those who know Radian inside and out, think of this. Radian is linked in series from one unit to the next. Our units first input is pan. Twice this has failed us on commissions. Now here's my thought. Because we carry the C300 which isn't a light camera could the power surge with the three axis working together damage the Pan unit. There must be a reason for units failing.
    I hope someone has an insight I have sent Tabb an email but as of yet no answer.
     
  2. Brad McGiveron

    Brad McGiveron Active Member

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    I saw earlier in this thread you mention powering the gimbal with 12v... what is your setup? I mean the BEC you are running and the amps between the gimbal/servos and the Vid TX. What voltage to the servos? Have you tried it with separate power to the Vid TX and the Gimbal.

    Does the pan work at any time( intermittent) or is it just not working period?
     
  3. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Colin for mounts see the guys over at Allied Drones. They seem to have some nice stuff that would help you out with the mounting of the CS gimbal to the Skyjib.
     
  4. Colin

    Colin Member

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    Gary, thank you for the link, Ill check it out.
    Brad. The video and radian are fed from the same 11.1v battery pack. As the unit is supposed to be professionally put together I dont know the answer regarding voltage. we have returned it to the supplier yet again. I'll check once we get it back. Hopefully with all issues resolved.
     
  5. Ben Platts

    Ben Platts Active Member

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    Hi Colin. Thought i should get in contact as I also have a skyjib/cinestar set up built by heliguy which i've had a fair few problems with! Firstly those gel pads are probably causing your pan issue. I have the same adapter plate and when I first tried using it I had the same issue with the pan vibrating itself faster and faster. The gel pads just act to amplify any movement, especially side to side. I ended up removing the gel pads and using some high density foam securely cabled tied down so there is no movement. Works much better. I still, like you, get a lot of vibration in my video's though. The mount Gary put a link too looks a lot better and I might look at getting one. With the radian as well I've had a few issues. When I first got or system we have a faulty tilt servo. Was really stuttery and glitchy. Replaced it and all was working very smoothly for about a 2 months then suddenly yesterday on our 3rd flight I lost all control of the tilt and it just flipped all the way over upside down and stayed there. Now when I plug the the radian tilt module into the software the current angle demand keeps rapidly going from 0 to -180 by itself over and over again. No idea why. Thinking im gonna have to send the radian unit back to Heliguy for a replacement. Like you though Im setting up a commercial filming company. I already work in the broadcast TV world and have some jobs lined up for TV series etc and can't afford for things to keep mysteriously going wrong. Be great if we could share any knowledge or advice to get both our problems sorted.

    Any news on your power distribution issue? We have the exact same setup with the 11.1v battery powering gimbal and video TX. All seemed well with it but as we had the faulty servo and now the module I'm not so sure! When I plug my radian into the laptop I do see some electrical noise as Andy mentioned with the slew indicator moving by itself a bit. What would this indicate Andy?

    Any advice and ideas would be great from anyone and everyone!
     
  6. Colin

    Colin Member

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    Hi Ben, Sorry to hear of your issues but only a few, you're doing well. Ive a list!!
    Our adapter plate has since been bolted to the photohigher undercarriage. I did retain the gel pads though. I drilled 4mm holes in the plate but used 3mm hex screws with nylock nuts. My thoughts are that the pads will absorb most of the vibration and the screws retaining a firm mount, without transmitting the vibration to the camera. Those cable ties supplied by heliguy were a joke. The only function I can see was to keep the gimbal in place during flight. No one yet has to tell me the correct way to secure the plate to the Photohigher U/C.
    We haven't flown since due to more faults.
    Our relationship with heliguy is grim so don't hold your breath in having items replaced without full payment. You may of course have better luck than us. It appears we have one common denominator that fact we are experiencing the exact similar issues.
    I have lots of problems on another thread within this forum 'Fault with Radian". You'll read that Tabb has recommended a voltage supply of less than 5 volts certainly no more to the FF servos. The servo will accept 5v, however Radian will take anything to 12. We have replaced units 3 times so IMHO there has to be an underlying issue. So with the thinking cap on I decided to check the voltage coming from the CC BEC. Its located within one of the gimbal arms. Follow Port 1 input on PAN Radian backward to the BEC. Our Lipo is connected to the BEC with 11.1volts. I assume yours is the same coming from the same distributor. This too has been replaced by Heliguy on the first return. Having read Tabbs recommendation of voltage to the servos I decided to remove the BEC and measure the voltage to the radian units. It measured 6.2 volts, well above that for the FF servos. I suggest you do the same before connecting again. Its the only thing I can think of why our units are failing. Again we contacted HG and explained that the BEC was putting out a voltage higher than the recommendation for the FF servos. Reply, its only 1.2v higher !!!!!!! should not be a problem. Got nowhere. I have since had to purchase a Castle connector to change the voltage back to were it should at 5v and another FF servo another £82.00. Currently the gimbal is working correctly but without the bird being in the air we'll not know what effects are happening.
    I hope this helps you even a little as like you I've found this experience very stressful. By the way Ive also had to change the video TX and complete re-wire to the base station as well has having to pay a computer engineer resolve the issues created by DJI waypoint software/google maps.
    If we can share more thoughts that would be good. We may eventually get two dependable units to work as they should.
     
  7. Ben Platts

    Ben Platts Active Member

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    Hi Colin. Cheers for all the info. Yeah i'm waiting see how I get on with Heliguy! I, like you are new to this whole world of electronics (although having to learn quite quickly!) but what did you use to measure the current going into the radian module? Link to product would be great if you've got one. It may well be the same thing and would be good to check although it seems to be the radian module rather than the servo that has gone on ours. It had been fine with a fair amount of flying over the last couple months too so it may not be the same issue. I'll let you know when i've checked.

    What was wrong with you TX? Ours has been fine and I put the base station together myself so have had no issue there. I didn't got for the DJI waypoint software either, just wookong m. Our heli was built by a guy called Ryan who has since left Heliguy so we seem to have had a lot less problems with our set up although the issue of smooth flight without any stabilisation is still not sorted. Spent ages prop balancing and doesn't seem to have made a huge difference. Not sure what else to try. Guess it's just a long process of trial and error. Using a Canon IS lens does seem to make a massive difference though. The one shoot i've done with one didn't need any post stabilisation. Would be good to know if it is possible to get super smooth footage when a heli is optimally set up. All the companies i've coming into contact with in this country doing this sort sort of work all seem to use post stabilisation though. We do live in a windy country!
     
  8. Colin

    Colin Member

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    Ben, well new is not really correct. Ive been flying RC from 1980 so been around a few corners and know waffle when its spoken. New to the UAV industry would be a better way of stating the issue. {BMFA qualified in A&B certificates, as well as club and area examiner} Also PPL for full size.
    Voltage was measured using a multi-meter available at most good electronic stores such as Maplins. You don't need to spend big money. I measured across the brown and red wire. The yellow or white wire is the signal wire.
    Thats the same result for us Radian & servos, its hard to know what goes first. But surely it cant be the Radian. I would have expected a recall if that was the case. And Im sure Tabb / Andy would have been in contact. They've too much to loose.
    Our video Tx had the range of a stones throw. Totally useless. Ive since purchased a new Tx from First Person View run by Simon Dale. Great service and customer help, unlike some other companies we've done business with recently.
    Unbelievable, our SJ was also built by Ryan. Not sure if he left or been thrown out. Jon/Alex have no technical knowledge what so ever and they seem to have a new guy in there now called Ben. I think Ben's on a fast and steep learning curve. That's why I've suggested you check the voltage. Maybe he {Ryan} thought that be raising the voltage level, the servos could cope with the increase in load. The CC BEC's are defaulted to 5.1v so it had to have been changed by Heliguy. This has been confirmed by Castle. All adding to my case.
    Smooth flight is my next issue to resolve once Ive confirmed that the gimbal is operationally safe and fit for purpose. Have you balanced your props both in the vert & horz positions. The prop must be able to stay in any clock face position and not swing level. If it swings level in the horizontal position the side closest to the ground is heavy. You'll need to remove some surface around the prop hub. Its easy just takes time. My understanding is that smooth flight is possible, that why we purchased the best on the market. Well should have been the best. Some day we'll get there together.
     
  9. Ben Platts

    Ben Platts Active Member

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    Indeed, I hope so too! Balanced all the props vertically using a du bro prop balancer. Made sure they stay in all positions when left yeah. How do you balance them horizontally? Just found out about prop tracking and one of my props was quite out on that front so maybe changing that will help. Have you needed to balance your motors too? I am totally new to all things RC so its been a very fast and steep learning curve! Coming at it fully from the cameraman side of things. Thought I was just buying a new bit of camera kit but turns out its a little more complicated. The results are unmatchable when it all works though.

    I'll get one of those meters asap and test the voltage. If mines up too I guess we have an answer. My servo was faulty as soon as I got it but as I said the Radian unit has only just gone after 2 months or so. I've swapped over servo's this morning to see if that affected it but its definitely the Radian unit. The current angle demand is still going crazy. No amount of firmware updates or resting of the unit seems to affect it. Have you managed to set your CC BEC back to the safe level and does it seem to be working and sorting your issues?

    I ended up buying some bluebeam antenna's from IBCrazy and they made a huge difference to our video downlink. The original setup we had used to break up constantly with the new antennas its rock solid.

    I am planning to start using the C300 on my heli too. Have you managed to get it balanced properly. I've got the epic tilt bars and longer booms on the cinestar so thinking I should have enough play to balance it correctly. Radian does seem to be very sensitive to that too. If it's not perfectly balanced you will get jitters. All axis on my are super smooth when its all balanced well.

    Very glad we met up on here. Maybe between us we can get things sorted in days rather than months!
     
  10. Colin

    Colin Member

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    Ben, To balance the prop using Du bro balance the prop in the horizontal axis, ie 9-3 position. Now rotate it vertically to the 12-6 position and watch what happens. Hopefully it will stay there. Now rotate it to the 10-4 position and again watch what happens and again to the 2-8 mark. If the prop swings it will level out at the 9-3 position the centre hub as thats been balanced. The lower hub on that side will be heavy. I hope this explains it. I haven't yet balanced the motors the gimbal episode took me away from that.
    Just like yourself we purchased this kit to extend our resources but we've spent more time and effort in ensuring safe use, its actually cost us business now.
    As for your servo being faulty as you got it, snap. Our PAN wasn't working from delivery. We sent the gimbal back Replacement of CC BEC/ Radian / Servo was required. Yeph we tried all the above too. No difference.
    To return the BEC to the default voltage, we had to purchase the Castle connector. Its a small USB device. I thought HG would do this for us or even send the connector over to let us do it and we'd return the unit back. Nope, £22.00 plus delivery for 30secs work. After all we didn't change the voltage. Download the Castle CC BEC software to your windows computer plug in the connector to the USB port and connect it to the lead from the BEC. Read from the BEC, update the voltage from the drop-down box and write to the BEC. Its as easy as that and as quick. Now we did have an issue making communication with the connector at first but after reading the FAQ I connected the gimbal battery which was all was needed. So if you only get one green light, connect the battery.
    Ive now bought the long range patch antenna and the RHCP units. I dont know how they alter the range as we've yet the try again.
    As for the C300. With belts off, Perfect balance on the horizontal and Pan. The tilt can go so far then swings vertically down. Even with the extended bars I cannot get enough height. What I need to do is to extend the downpost from the gimbal then raise the sidebars up. Its not that far off. About an extra 1" should do the trick.
    Do feel free to contact me at any time. I will persist until I get this the way that it should have been on delivery. It was well documented what the intended use was for and the camera being carried. Stay in touch. Looking forward to hearing how you get on.
     
  11. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Hi Ben: Can you confirm that you're running version 1.03 of the firmware on the Radians. There was a known issue with jitter with PWM and the earlier version of the firmware.

    You may want to buy a longer boom and cut yourself a new down post to get the length you need.
    There is a forum member, a lady by the name of Katya Nelhams-Wright, who has a C8 and flies a C300. She's down on the Isle of Wight, I think. http://www.runfreefilms.co.uk

    I've not seen her on the forum for a while, but you can reach her via her web site.

    Andy.
     
  12. Colin

    Colin Member

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    Andy, the Cs has three booms. Can I take it that the unused one could replace the down-post as in Bens position. Each boom I think is about $90 but this one isn't doing anything productive. The other two has the PAN servo/ and PAN unit on it. The removed down post could be re used in the third vacant space. If so do you know of anyone who has performed such a task to get the length. Thanks.
     
  13. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    I think Katya said she had customized the gimbal for the C300. I've got to get on the phone right now, but you might want to do a search for all postings by her on this forum and you can see what she wrote....

    Andy.
     
  14. Brad Meier

    Brad Meier Active Member
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    Ben, Andy

    I also get a jitter on the readout on all 3 radians but its only a 1% change. I'm not sure if that's significant enough to affect anything. I do get some visible rotational jitter when the radians are in use....

    About 6 months ago I extended my vertical post by swapping it out with one of the spare tubes for converting to the 2axis mount. I also extended the side tubes. Boom shots have been greatly reduced. I'll measure and photograph tomorrow.
     
  15. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Interesting to see what you did, Brad.
    As you say, I think there's going to be some "quantum noise" on the radians, and 1% maybe BTLON. (Below the level of noise.)

    Andy.
     
  16. Ben Platts

    Ben Platts Active Member

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    Andy

    I update the firmware 2 days ago and I don't seem to be getting any noise now which is good. Brad. I bought an extra boom length and cut it to have longer side booms but since thinking about mounting the c300 I was thinking bout swapping one out from the top to extend the down tube. Would seem to be the easiest answer. How much extra length down did you go for and did you have to cut the tube you put in or just used it at the original length?
     
  17. Brad Meier

    Brad Meier Active Member
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    I just measured my vertical tube at 125mm. It may have been one of the old side tubes that I used after swapping them to 200mm. With adjustable tilt arms and a DSLR it will just barely clear the ground. So.. Upgraded to add landing gear extensions and now I have plenty of room. From what. I can tell in my old carbon tube stash the original length was 100mm. Also included with my CS8/3Axis combo was a 125mm tube for converting to 2 axis mount... So all the 3 axis guys should have a spare 125 laying around.
     

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  18. Gary Haynes

    Gary Haynes Administrator
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    Brad you must live south of the equator. How do you get everything to hang like that from the ceiling? Look forward to meeting you tomorrow.
     
  19. Brad Meier

    Brad Meier Active Member
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    Ha.. I took it with the iPad. Worst idea ever. Even without anyone watching I felt dumb...
     
  20. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    Ben: I have a faint memory that Katya said she had mounted the C300 upside down in the gimbal (do not use Brad's image as a guide! <evil grin>). I can't find that posting on the forum though...but I think it was because of the camera's C of G being where it was.

    No...wait a minute -- I just found the thread. http://forum.freeflysystems.com/index.php?threads/landing-gear-extensions.264/#post-2459
    Start at Message #7.

    Andy
     

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