Bush Pilot problem with Redrock Torque Motor

Discussion in 'MōVI Pro' started by Josh Park, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. Josh Park

    Josh Park Member

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    I've been playing with Bush Pilot for the past few days and I've been enjoying it. I've been just testing only until I take it out on a real live shoot, but it seems to me that it's a fun addition to the Movi package.

    Until today.

    I turned it on and attempted to calibrate, and this is what happens.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/o3z37ezsk1z2tbk/Torque Motor malfunction.MOV?dl=0

    I don't have another motor for me to test, but it was working perfectly until today. Anyone also has a Redrock motor that can share the experience? or any other Bush Pilot owners who are experiencing the same problem?
     
    Peter Lay likes this.
  2. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    In the video, it looks like you calibrated the knob backwards. Counter-clockwse vs clockwise. Does it work if you reverse the directions you're turning the knob when you calibrate it?
     
  3. Josh Park

    Josh Park Member

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    Calibrating either direction doesn't seem to matter too much. Still the same problem. I messaged Redrock Micro on Instagram and they replied back saying and I quote

    Plugging into IRIS or ZOOM port didn't make a difference. I ended up purchasing a Reflex motor from Hocus Products from UK, which should arrive next week. It was probably a mistake to purchase Redrock's motors to begin with...
     
  4. Chris Benny

    Chris Benny New Member

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    I have had the same problem. Strange thing is I have a second Torque motor and it works fine. I am returning the motor today.
     
  5. Amr Issawi

    Amr Issawi New Member

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    I think the Hocus motor will work fine , appreciate a feedback after you receive the motor and test it
     
  6. Brian Valente

    Brian Valente New Member

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    Hi guys - we're on this thread so it's better to write to us here or through our tech support (our social media is marketing folks, they try to be helpful but honestly you'll get better answers here).

    This is not a motor issue. In this MoVI Pro setup, everything happens in the controller. The motors simply take voltage and move, there's no magic there. AND this isn't a torque issue - there is plenty of power for a lens like yours Josh. Motors don't make any decisions about which direction to go, how hard to push, where is the end of the lens, when to stop pushing, etc. that all comes from the controller.

    In the posted video, what you are seeing is a Freefly extra "pre" step the controller does *before* actually calibrating the lens' end points (at least that's what we think based on our experience). The controller makes tiny movements in each direction, and then if successful proceeds to find the end points. It sounds to su like it's getting hung up on this phase before it even gets to calibrating the end points. Just to be clear, it's not even to the point of fully calibrating the lens.

    Here are some suggestions for ours or really any motors (Preston, Heden, Redrock, etc.) and let us know by posting here.

    1. Calibrate the motor without a lens attached. Try calibrating multiple times to ensure the controller moves the motor in both directions all times.

    2. make sure your lens is in the middle of the focus throw and not at one end or the other. if it can't move both directions, it may stall like you've seen.

    3. Never calibrate with the Bush Pilot not plugged in (unless you are not using a Bush Pilot). Don't unplug Bush Pilot while in use. Don't plug in or unplug motors either. These are more precautionary but btw are true of any motor or setup.

    4. Make sure the motor isn't pressed too hard into the lens gear. The drive gear should be fully engaged with the teeth, but not forced into the lens gear. This requires more torque, and the controller may incorrectly interpret this as some issue with the lens (it's an endpoint, etc.).

    5. Use the MoVI controller instead of Mimic or Bush Pilot. It could be a Bush Pilot specific thing, but any feedback here will be helpful.

    6. Reboot the MoVI Pro and the Mimic and calibrate again. We've seen this solve all sorts of general strangeness.

    We think MoVI Pro and Torque motors are a great solution. We're committed to supporting it, and i'm sure Freefly is as well. We realize there is limited documentation in general for these setups, so we're gathering input from customers who are using this without issues and are putting together a user guide for MoVI Pro and Redrock motors. It will be useful for other motor setups as well.


    Brian
     
    #6 Brian Valente, Mar 21, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  7. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Brian! That's very useful information and good advice for troubleshooting, no matter what lens motors we're using. Really appreciate your taking the time to respond.
     
  8. Amr Issawi

    Amr Issawi New Member

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    Thanks Brian for the information !
     
  9. Charles Bergquist

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    Same issue on my end as well. I've been having this problem since the first shoot with the MoVI Pro. Can't figure out what's happening. This happens with Bush Pilot or Controller. Been in contact with Freefly, no solution yet.
     
  10. Brian Valente

    Brian Valente New Member

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    Charles just to clarify are you saying you see what is in the video above? have you tried the steps we suggested?

    thanks Brian
     
  11. Mike Sutton

    Mike Sutton Member

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    I was able to replicate the issue. Its purely a calibration issue and how its done. First, this is beta software so there is kinks to work out. Second the calibration has to be done properly with FIZ calibration done first then knob calibration and in the right direction.

    First do a FIZ calibration on the Mimic. Then select Knob Calibration. Use the metal stop in the inner portion of the hand wheel as the centering point for center reference. Then rotate counter-clockwise, then hit SET, then clockwise rotation, then SET you will be good to go. . Also distance from the movi also matters so make sure you are at least 5 feet away pulling focus with Bushpilot

    Michael Sutton
     
    #11 Mike Sutton, Mar 22, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
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  12. Charles Bergquist

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    This is happening to us on MoVI Controller and Mimic and Bush Pilot, all versions, Beta and Release.

    This seems to be an issue with Wedge integration on the TSU on mine specifically. I've been trying to get it solved for over a month and haven't reached a solution.

    I've tried with multiple Red Rock Motors. I can confirm that the motors are good as they work with the stand alone RR Basestation.

    Will keep updated, but as far as Bush Pilot only, my problem seems to be a larger issue with the TSU in my opinion.
     
  13. Timm Stemann

    Timm Stemann New Member

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    Just a quick note: although all motors work fine with their own motor control unit, they do differ in regards of encoders and gear ratio. This means that a different amount of "step" positions are returned to the Freefly when putting the same voltage on it. If too many or too less encoder values are returned to the controller, it can make problems. May be you want to try different motor manufacturer in the settings, for our Chrosziel CDM-100M motor, the Heden motor works best and we have not heard issues about it yet. We are working with Freefly to get our motor listed soon too.
     
  14. Josh Park

    Josh Park Member

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    UPDATE.
    Hocus Products Reflex U Motor ended up not working out. It's a lovely little motor and definitely is lighter and sexy looking, but until Mimic Pro Bush Pilot ends up integrating torque options, I won't be able to use it for this setup at all. I ended up eating up $150 return cost and sent back the motor to UK.

    Somehow Redrock Torque motor started to work. I just successfully finished a 2 week job overseas with it and had zero complaints.
     
  15. Brian Valente

    Brian Valente New Member

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    Good to hear Josh. While Freefly has a number of settings for setting up torque, the only current option to view or access those is via their tabletop controller.

    If you like a smaller lighter option, we previewed the SLS motors, which you should see more of at NAB. Smallest and lightest available, entirely new and more powerful motor design


    Brian
     
  16. Deniz Ozgoren

    Deniz Ozgoren Support Mage
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    If you are using Redrock motors, recommending to get the latest beta firmware which addresses an issue with Redrock Torque Motors https://freeflyeng.s3.amazonaws.com/MoviProv1_2/ios.html This firmware will be going into stable release in about a week.


    TSU v1.3.1
    • Bugfix: Fixes and improvements to an issue reported by customers using Redrock Torque Motors. Added a time based fault that protects in all motion states. It also modifies the over current limit of the Redrock Torque Motors to be lower than what it was previously set to.
    • Bugfix: FIZ settings wouldn’t save properly in earlier versions of the TSU firmware.


    We just got our hands on these and will be pushing a software update to support them.
     
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