Are you really going to rent these things?

Discussion in 'MōVI M10' started by J Griffin Ricker, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. J Griffin Ricker

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    'Rent' as in 'hand someone a couple of cases and tell them to have a nice day'? Just curious. My first 24 hours with this was all learning exercise. Day 2 was figuring out how to mount ancillaries and balance faster. Even at it's simplest - if you just gave somebody the gimbal they'd still need half a day to figure it out (and that's assuming they're patient, intelligent and willing to read the instructions). I spend a lot of time operating a Steadicam and it even took me a little while the first time I set it up. Combine the basics with the other advanced applications and it requires an experienced team of people to operate.

    It looks easy on the internet but the more I learn about it, just handing one over for cash seems more the equivalent of renting somebody a trained monkey without the trainer. Knowing how people treat rentals and the difficulty level involved, are you really just going to roll the dice and hand it over?
     
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  2. Steve Maller

    Steve Maller UAV Grief Counselor

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    It's hard to imagine a rental house not having at least a dedicated PA to go along with the MōVI as part of the rental package, if not an actual operator. This is brand new stuff, and nobody out there other than actual MōVI owners is going to know how to make these things work.
     
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  3. Austin Glass

    Austin Glass Active Member

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    I originally thought it would be okay, but I changed my mind on that long ago. Mine will go out with an operator/tech. It will just need to be policy, because I can imagine in a few months every DP will already have a "MOVI guy" and will only need to rent the rig, and it might be hard to say no. Without knowing the skill level of their "MOVI guy" it's just a huge liability.
     
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  4. Hikari Homma

    Hikari Homma Member

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    Griffin, you are right. And I'm in same situation. In my case, I spent first 1 hour for understand how to treat and charge the battery haha. Then I tried set up the balance with my Glidecam/Merlin experience. But I found it have many difference. And also you have to learn basic knowledge about how to set up GUI with your PC. I spent first day for understand everything. And in 2nd day, I tried to make every settings better than 1st day. Yes I spent 2days already but still it's not fit. Even my merlin/Glidecam is better at this moment I think :(

    I think I can have more better balance and I could find out best GUI setting. But you have to change GUI setting depend on situation.
    I don't think rental don't work well. At least you need guy who can set up everything and have knowledge about MoVI if you want to rental. Then why people gonna go rental house? I think people gonna hire you guys who have MoVI. Yes MoVI is not so easy to use than imagined but it means your skill have value.
     
  5. Jonathan Stevenson

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    I will definitely always require an operator or technician to go with the unit, unless the person renting is a vetted Movi Pro. After having some hands on time with one recently, it was quickly apparent that you can't just "pick it up and go" like a lot of videos might have led you to believe.
     
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  6. Mark MacEwen

    Mark MacEwen Member

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    Hi there,

    I have just been to IBC and got my hands on a Movi, like some of you here I am also a Steadicam owner operator. I've had one on order for a while now, and although being impressed, it has left me with some questions,
    How are you finding using it on jobs, one of the things that surprised me when talking to the guys at the booth is the set up time, they were saying its about 30 mins, also it looks like you have to re balance every time you change a focal length if using a zoom how long does to take to re balance?
    How are you finding using it on set ?
    Are you finding the payload capability ok ?
    I guess my biggest issue with it is the price, it's expensive, and to get it working on set you are looking at spending at least another 6 or 7000 dollars or more if you want full wireless rig monitors etc. for that sort of money you are in the realm of a very respectable second hand Steadicam rig, which could fly almost any payload.
    Also there seems to be a lot of extras and bits and pieces being developed, will those that have made the early purchase be catered for by free fly like Red or some others do, by offering an upgrade path rather than being left with another huge expense (eg. New unit) ?
    Any thoughts gratefully received
    All the best

    Mark
     
  7. Jonathan Stevenson

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    Although I haven't gotten my unit yet (it arrives today!!), these are my thoughts on your questions here when considering my limited experience with the rig.

    - Initial balancing for first timers will be about an hour, and go down to about 15-20 minutes as you refine your setup and get practice.
    - I bought a little food scale to weigh my components and make sure the rig isn't too heavy at any time. But I'm confident I can have a full epic rig and still come in under weight.
    - When all is said and done, I spent JUST under $20k to get a full kit together. That includes Movi, Follow Focus, Paralinx, SmallHD monitors, etc.
    - I would challenge you to think of the Movi as an alternate to Steadicam, but not a replacement. Just like a Steadicam is an alternate option for a dolly track. They will have some overlap in functionality and use, but they are totally different pieces of gear at the end of the day. It's just like the Red vs. Alexa argument. It just comes down to the right tool for the job.

    Hope that answers some of your questions.
     
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  8. Brad Meier

    Brad Meier Active Member
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    Rebalancing with a focal length change can be very quick with experience but it all depends on the lens. Ultra Primes can take under 30 seconds with experience...
     
  9. Giorgio Sironi

    Giorgio Sironi New Member

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    I think that offering equipment with operator is the way to go. Would you ever rent a stedaycam without op? Maybe in 2 or 3 years it will be possible but nobody without enough experience is even going to come close to my setup, if I'll ever get one ;) ! Nobody is an expert ( as for now) so let the less unexperienced at work. Interesting times ahead! Gio
     
  10. John Voorhees

    John Voorhees New Member

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    I am posting under this forum because I am in need of an M10 rental!

    I have a 6 week shoot in Europe starting in October. Please reply below if you can help me out.

    Thanks!
     
  11. Giorgio Sironi

    Giorgio Sironi New Member

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    I am in Europe, I would love to be of help, but I doubt that I will have the Movi on time. Grrr!
     
  12. John Voorhees

    John Voorhees New Member

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    Giorgio, I would love to hire you! I have a really exciting project. Send me an email: johnbvoorhees@gmail.com
     
  13. MIke Magee

    MIke Magee Active Member

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    Our friend and colleague, Mike Duval will be renting out an M10 shortly. Mike invited me in today to take a look at an M10. My initial observations is that this is one of the most fantastically engineered pieces of technology that I have personally held and used. The obligatory photo that Mike took of me with a fascinated grin is below. This rig is clean, efficient, silent and well constructed. The UI is very well done (The ONLY request I would make is being able to save multiple configurations, something I long for in the Radians we use).

    Thanks for the opportunity to get my hands on it Mike.
    -m

    M10.JPG
     
  14. Brad Meier

    Brad Meier Active Member
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    Save multiple configurations you say? Already done. It's under the general tab in the software. Right now you can save up to 3 configurations..
     
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  15. Mike Duval

    Mike Duval Member

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    Thanks for stopping by Mike, glad to have been able to share the M10 with you. It was the least we could do after you took the time to show us the ins and outs of your Cinestar 8/Radian setup earlier this summer.

    So...I've been holding off replying to this thread as I was sure my response would be the dissenting opinion but I suppose I'll make it known that we do intend to rent our M10 (without an operator) and share it with the world. Obviously the MôVI is a very sophisticated system thats not in any way plug-n-play affair. We get that. There is a good amount of info for a first time user to digest. Things like batteries/power management, balancing (hello Physics!), some wireless/RC stuff to boot. Despite this significant hurdle, I think there are plenty of responsible individuals with the same level of curiosity, passion and dedication as others who are here. I confident that there are many who will be able to learn how to use this tool effectively. Will they be as proficient or quick to setup as a seasoned pro would be in a years time? Simply put, no, but its not our job to deny them the opportunity.

    What sets us apart is that we do things a bit differently than your standard rental company. We're all shooters. We eat sleep and breathe cameras. We're not about pushing a pen around a piece of paper trying to get as many rental dollars as we can from a customer. We aim to get them into the right gear for their shoot, not whats most expensive. More importantly, when something goes wrong, we've got the know how to help. We really dig into products like this because we know we'll have to have the familiarity with lots of different camera packages. We try to setup every product we rent as a turn key solution. Our goal is pretty simple, we want to rent one of the best sorted & most complete MôVI packages on the market.

    So, while we just received our MôVI yesterday, it will be some time before we're ready to send it out into the marketplace. In the meantime, I'll be sure to answer as many questions along the way as I can. If people have questions about configurations of different cameras/lenses and we carry them, let me know and I'll do my best to help with fitting questions or photos of our setup as it comes along.

    Mike
     
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  16. MIke Magee

    MIke Magee Active Member

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    Thanks Brad. With great appreciation to Freefly, I stand corrected.
    -m
    p.s. Does that mean a Radian config set is on the way?
     
  17. MIke Magee

    MIke Magee Active Member

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    Thank You Mike. I didn't want to say who you were, but I guess that the picture background kinda gave it way. I know that you folks will do great with this gear. You ARE all pro's and some of the nicest folks I've met.
    -m
     
  18. Casey Van Nyhuis

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    The way i see it rental companies will let RED's go out the door to random people without training and those aren't exactly something that the average person can pick up and use without any experience. And those are exceeding the cost of even a MOVI. I'm sure the rental house will wind up replacing brushless motors left and right and having to reset settings each time but that's not so bad in the grande scheme of things if your renting them for hundreds of dollars per day. I suspect the rental companies will just make quick 15-20 minute "crash" course videos to jump start the brand new users.
     
  19. Andy Johnson-Laird

    Andy Johnson-Laird Administrator
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    A "crash" course.....hmmmm. :)
     
  20. MIke Magee

    MIke Magee Active Member

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    HA. Sometimes Casey Cracks Me up. Oh, wait, is that another double entendre?

    Casey, according to Mike, they are going to put some checks and balances in place. He faces a similar situation with his high end steadicam rentals, and that's worked out OK.

    ME? I think its a good opportunity to get a hold of one to make a purchase decision. I never would have had one in my hands today otherwise.

     

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