Hi all, I'm new here and new to RC flying in general, after some reserch I want to go for a Cinestar 8 to fly a Sony FS700. I know it sounds bad to get started with such a setup. But I am more than willing to get seriously in it. I am just hesitating between buying a RTF from a reptuable builder or building it myself with the Andy's tutorial. Then again, if so, i will base my kit on existing RTF. Am I a dreamer enough to think I can make it fly properly? The distributor is offering 2 days of training, I said 5 more days would be better... Whats would be your feelings about my plans? Thanks for any suggestion! Alan
HI Alan I did the same thing. I researched for 4 months and then decided to purchase the Cinestar 8 kit from Quadrocopter and assemble it myself. Here's what I have learned so far. 1. Purchase an MX20 and buy the Aerosim software to help you train to fly. It will be the best investment you can make. The software has MK copters as models and they are very realistic to the real thing. Plus you can get experience with the radio and the controls. 2. Quadrocopter is a great support company. They have answered numerous questions about the build (before I found this forum). I highly recommend purchasing through them. 3. This forum is a great resource, everyone is professional, and very helpful. No negativity here which is very rare. 4. If you can afford to do so I would purchase one of thes kits first: http://www.quadrocopter.com/MK-Basicset-QuadroKopter-XL_p_283.html You can learn to build them, and then fly it with a much less expensive copter. If it crashes its not as much of a big deal compared to a high $$ Cinestar. You can always sell it later if you wanted to as they hold their value. 5. Don't underestimate the skill required to fly these things manually. Make sure that you know how to fly them manually very well. The software I sugggested can really help you get the experience you need.
To add to Dave's thoughtful comments, building your own copter will put you "at one with the machine". As trivial as that sounds, it's really important with these things, as there are so many potential pitfalls. You'll also be far more deliberate about your first flights when you have an appreciation of what went into the build. Lastly, one thing to add to Dave's post: read this website as though it was a good book. Because it is. There are numerous pearls of wisdom, especially around post-mortems on accidents and other mishaps. A smart man learns from his own mistakes, a wise man learns from the mistakes of others, and a fool learns from neither. Don't be a fool.
Alan welcome to the forum. Firstly if it's not too much trouble, would you be kind enough to change your user name to your real first name and last name, please? The reasons for this (and how to do do it) are explained here: http://forum.freeflysystems.com/index.php?threads/real-names.497/ If you are new Quadrocopter I think most of use would recommend a couple of steps before jumping straight to a CS8. Buy a copy of AeroSim. It is a flight sim program under $100 that can help you come up to speed without hurting the wallet with a crash. You would also need to buy a Flight Radio and that would be an investment that would be used when you start flying real copters. And buy yourself a Blade mQX. You can learn a lot from this little ship, it flys well and you can transfer what you learn from AeroSim to the Blade to a larger copter. You can do as dave suggested and build something in the middle. QC just started selling the DJI Phantom or the Team BlackSheep Discovery. Both are good transition ships. If you do these things before you go to the dealer for the real training and i almost guarantee that you will have a better experience and get much more enjoyment along with safety as you learn to operate a large copter.
Good points Gary and Steve. I just recommended the lowest price MK solution so that Alan could get experienced with the MK boards, electronics, and setup. I"m contemplating doing this right now in order to experiment with way points and to also get more flying time experience. I know one of the problems I am running into now is the fear of crashing an expensive copter due to my inexperience. Had I had to do it over again I would have went this route from the start. This experience is invaluable and will be well worth it when switching to a CS8.
I spent innumerable hours with my XProHeli XP2 quadcopter and GoPro before trusting myself with the Cinestar. I still fly the quad, too. It's super easy compared to schlepping out the whole Cinestar rig!
And if you can control something like a Blade flying larger is somewhat easier due to weight/mass. My first quad was a Gaui 330. Man that thing was hard to fly. Wondered what I was getting into. After getting somewhat proficient the transition wasn't difficult.
Thanks to all for your help, it's extremly valuable! Alan is my real first name, I just forgott add my last name... I do understand why it is important, will update. As for the Cin8, my best bet is to buy a kit and assemble it myself then! I do not under estimate the skills needed to fly such a set up, but i probably need to explain a couple of things regarding my situation. I successfully launched a serie of 4X52min wildlife documentaries where I budgeted lots of 1:1 cineflex aerials. As you may guess, 1:1 heli + cineflex will be more expensive in the long run, that's why I am thinking about Cinestar 8... Plus the much more versatility of a drone... I live in a country where there is no drone aerial view services as well... Now, first episode needs to be out by the end of August 2013, means I need my Cine8 shots to be pro before this. Biggest concern : how realistic am I, knowing the fact I am already working very hard on this documentary as a productor, director? My aims with the drone are nevertheless simple : I mainly plan to do low altitude landscapes, and very simple manoeuvres. Just need to be confident enough within couple of months prior to August, to get simple stunning semi aerials with low risks. Well apart from that first deadline, I am more than willing to get seriously into this kind of shots, so I don't consider this as a simple and easy tool. So best option for me might be this : buy a cine8 kit, build it, learn, learn, practice a lot on simulator, and then maybe go to my ditributor to follow an operating training for 2 days and let him check what I did on my own with the kit, fine tune if needed, come back and start flying on safe situations... What do you guys think? Thanks again, Alan
Hi Alan: If you have not flown radio controlled aircraft before, based on my experiences, I would estimate you will need: 1. 5 to 10 flight hours on AeroSIMRC. 2. 5 to 10 hours flying the Blade mQX or similar training helicopter. 3. 10 hours flying the Cinestar before you'll be able to get the shots you want. I can't really argue about the exact number of flight hours for the above....you will be the best judge, not me. But the point is that flying remotely controlled copters is counter-intuitive and you have to get some control actions from your conscious mind into your spinal cord -- that is, you do them without thinking about them. Specifically, the issue of "control transposition" when the copter's boom #1 is not pointing straight away from you (nose out) as it's called. You will find that you will use the AeroSimRC simulator to practice new maneuvers, and fly the Blade indoors when the weather is bad, so don't think of them as "training wheels" that you will discard later. You won't! It's not hard to learn this, but it does take time before you achieve what is called "automaticity" (that point where you don't think about it, like walking or tying your tie or your shoelaces.) You are, of course, most welcome to pose your questions here. Welcome to the forum. Andy.
Thanks for your imput guys, I'll go first with a blade mqx while i build my Cine 8 and train on flight sim! Great to see a happy community here! Thanks for all.
Listen to these guys. I was/am a noob at RC copters. I built the CS8. its been 2 months and im am now just working out the kinks more so in the fine details thans the control. Personally i have not used a flight sim though i highly recommend it. the only reason i havent is cause i have yet to find a sim for mac and because i have spent way to many years of my life playing video games (console). Thats being said i am not the typical pilot. i use the control scheme 3 instead of 1 (Europe) or 2 (US), as it is more familiar to playing an FPS on Playstation or Xbox. Start off small and get comfortable best advice.
2 months in just building? This is not likely to be in my timeframe. That said, thanks for sharing your experience, I am planning to spend 7 continuous days on a 10h day basis for the build, and if not enough one more week of intensive resaerch to get everything fixed. Practice sim flight on a windows machine and get used to pilot with the blade mqx. After I am feeling OK with all that, and the CS8 looks ready to me, I'll go for a 4 days training with my ditributor... Correct me if this sounds crazy and totally unrealistic... Cheers, Alan
The time it takes to build a complete kit depends on so many variables it is almost impossible for someone to guess how long it will take you. It all depends on how much experience you have with RC, soldering, what electronics you plan to use, etc. As far as the build goes I think its a great idea for you to build a kit up yourself as you will be much more knowledgeable with your machine, and while in the field you will be able to repair basic problems much more easily. If you do start the build and come to a problem you can't solve you can always send it over to us at Quadrocopter and we can get you back on track or ask for help here on the forum. As far as practicing your flying I think that the Blade MQX is by far the most helpful tool that we have found. A sim is a great tool as well, but to really get a feel for whats going on it is nice to actually have something in the air in front of you. The blade is great because you can fly it in the house or outside with no problems. They are very durable so you don't have to worry about breaking parts, and if you do break something they are pretty cheap to repair. If you can comfortably maneuver your blade you will do just fine with the real deal.
Thanks Andy, I have always been lurking around here. You guys usually respond so fast I don't have to say anything, so I just sit back and relax.
Hey, glad we're able to lighten your load. We know what it's like a QC....the endless copter wars, the ice, the snow, not to mention the endless supply of Kokanee... <evil grin> Andy.
Yeah you sure have to be quick around here! I think your time frame is realistic in actual build time, however there will be times where you spend a day researching something you find along the way that your not sure about in between building.
Very true, Sam. But then there's always this forum for those kinds of things....I've spent many an hour researching some of what proved to be the simplest of questions..... In that same vein, is there anyone on the forum who can read C source code but me? I could use some assistance reverse engineering some of the MK source code for the NC and FC boards to figure out the "ground truth" answers for some of the questions...... Andy.
Dont look at my 2 month time line. I blew the powerboard 4 days before christmas so that increased the build time and i spent time waiting on people to have to teach me how to do the soldering and also waiting on the local hobby shop to bring in parts that wernt included/needed to be replaced i the kit. It is verry possible to have it up and running in 2 weeks especially uf you do your research. I didnt do that before i built mine it really was learn as you go.
It sounds optimistic, Alan, but go for it! Unfortunately, it will not be us that correct you if you are wrong, it will be the Universe! And the Universe is a harsh, uncaring place -- so the correction will come in the form of things that don't work right, or that leave you struggling to understand.... But then, that's what this forum is here for. Andy.