Aerial pan issues

Discussion in 'MōVI Pro' started by Ben Platts, Jan 30, 2017.

  1. Ben Platts

    Ben Platts Active Member

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    On a drama shoot today using our MōVI pro for the first time on a job. Have done a few tests previously and noticed a little aided to side movement on forward flight with a pan hold strength of 10. I dialed it up slightly for the shoot then on the first flight we were having all sorts of pan twitches. Having spoken to another operator before he said he'd been having issues with pan twitches due to the GPS heading assist been on. I turned that off and the twitches went away but I also dialed down the pan hold back to 10 as I thought that might be contributing to the issues. After this on forward flights using a 50mm lens the side to side movement was very noticeable. I diales the pan hold up to 30 and the side to side movement went away but my camera ops control of the pan became very abrupt with no ramping or smoothing. After changing setting to try and improve this I ended up putting pan smoothing up to max, pan expo up to max on both the MōVI and the futaba receiver itself without it helping much. The only thing that seemed to help was dealing the pan hold back to 20. It it better now but still not perfect. My question is how do you dial in the gimbal so it's solid but still have the control smoothness. Bearing in mind I've been using Movi's for 4 years it's quite strange to be having these issues. Be interested to know if any other pilots have the same issues and what settings people have. Also is anyone else have issues with GPS assist causing sporadic pan twitching? Cheers
     
  2. Josh Lambeth

    Josh Lambeth Well-Known Member

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    We also have the twitch issue in GPS mode. I have sent a support request to FF last week but haven't heard from them yet...

    Josh
     
  3. Ben Platts

    Ben Platts Active Member

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    That's good to know Josh. Do you use compass assist or anything instead or just leave it all off? What pan hold strength do you generally fly with? Thanks
     
  4. Fred

    Fred New Member

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    Hello,
    We used to work with MoVI's (M5-M10-M15)
    In the DroneCast company we stopped freefly after on big movie, can't do the shot because of the pan can't hold the frame because of the drone speed... at more than 10m/s.
    The pan motor have not enough torque.... and start unhooking... the MōVI Pro motor torque upgrade was what we were waiting for..
    But your post scares me.
    At what drone speed were you using the gimbal ?
    Do you feel that the torque of pan of the new MōVI Pro will be enough to not unhook while trying to make an important shot, with fully loaded gimbal and drone at top speed ???
    Here s an example of our problem,

    Can you post a video of yours ??
    Regards
     
  5. Ben Platts

    Ben Platts Active Member

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    Hi. No it's not a problem with the motor not holding. We've tested it up to about 40mph and it's solid. It's more that we're struggling to get smooth footage at the moment. We seemed to have a loose feeling about the gimbal in forward flight but when we increase the hold strengths to combat this the camera ops control of the gimbal becomes very abrupt and in smooth and no amount of smoothing or expo is helping. I'm hopeful it's just a settings thing but so far we haven't found the answer.
     
  6. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    Hi Ben, it sounds like you have a lot of experience fine-tuning the Movi, but I'm curious if you adjusted the Jolt Rejection along with the Pan Hold?
    According to the manual, it sounds like you're experiencing one of the 'Cons' of Higher Hold Strengths (Page 65\66):

    Higher Hold Strengths CONS --
    » Disturbances that do make it through can lead to jolts, since the camera will react faster to outside forces. This can be limited through Jolt Rejection.

    Anyway, just thought I'd mention it and see what your thoughts on this were.
     
  7. Ben Platts

    Ben Platts Active Member

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    Thanks for the input Graham. The instability seems to come from the hold strengths being too low but when I increase them, although the footage gets a bit better the camera op really struggles to create smooth pan and tilts as any controller input is transferred into a really harsh movement on the MōVI with no smoothing or ramping.

    For a shoot today I switched back to the M15 and the stabilisation and control feel are absolutely perfect even in 15-20mph winds. So it's definitely something odd with my Pro. I assume it's some kind of setting but I've been auto tuning at 70, 75, 80 and 85%, adjusting holdstrenths and remote operator settings. It so far nothing has given me anywhere near the stability and feel the M15 has given us for 2 years. Do you fly the Pro airborne? If so what settings do you use? Will have some time next week when I'm not on shoots to do more testing with the pro then so hopefully will find the solution!
     
  8. Miles Pepper

    Miles Pepper New Member

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    I'm having this same issue. Can't seem to find the happy middle ground between motor hold strength and controllability. Will be testing tomorrow. If I find any solutions I'll let you know
     
  9. Stefan Helborg

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    I'm having the same issue.
     
  10. Josh Lambeth

    Josh Lambeth Well-Known Member

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    It only has the twitch in GPS mode. As soon as I switch to Compass mode the twitch goes away without touching the jolt rejection.
     
    Graham Futerfas likes this.
  11. Graham Futerfas

    Graham Futerfas Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. I watched Stefan's second clip in the other thread he posted and thought it might be a heading assist issue, because it seems to Pan back and forth more than vibrating. I wonder if changing to Compass mode will solve his problem.
     
  12. Ben Platts

    Ben Platts Active Member

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    After doing more testing I don't think hold strength has that much influence over stability. I might be wrong but I've put my pan hold strength down to 15 and am just concentrating on stiffness and filter settings and my results are much better. I've switched to fly in compass mode too. I've been doing an auto tune at 75% in a hover and this seems to give me good results. Let me know what you guys are experiencing
     
  13. Stefan Helborg

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    Ok so you auto tune while hovering ? It would be nice to hear your setting values, once your glad for the result :)
     
  14. Ben Platts

    Ben Platts Active Member

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    Yeah I'll note them down later today and let you know. I was meant to be doing more testing today but it's too windy. I've been trying to get good results for a couple weeks but the auto tuning in the air has definitely given me the best results. Of the top of my head I think the stiffness settings are something like: Pan 105, Roll 130, Tilt 100. Hold strengths are Pan 15, Roll 12, Tilt 12
     
    #14 Ben Platts, Mar 17, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  15. Stefan Helborg

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    Great. What about Gyro/output filters?
     
  16. Stefan Helborg

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    Maybe if someone have found some good settings and therefore have a calm and smoothe picture, they would share their settings with us please. It can also be screenshots of the app the settings.

    Autotune %
    Pan / Roll / Tilt Stiffness
    Pan / Roll / Tilt Filter
    Pan / Roll / Tilt Hold strenght
    Jolt Rejection
    Gyro Filter
    Output (Master) Filter
    Handheld / Airborne Mode
    Heading Assist Off / Fixed Mount / GPS / Compass
     
  17. Stefan Helborg

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    Hi again

    Out testing today. Got a calmer image by setting Heading Assist to OFF. In Compass mode it seems very nervous and shaky. It seems, though, that I still have some small wiggle in my roll axis, and it seems kind of nervous, which I could not get rid of ... I flew with RED, light lens, Connex downlink, MoVI Pro, black dampers on the ALTA. I autotuned the MoVI while it was attached to the ALTA, that hung in a cord. After that, I finetuned it while it was hovering 5-8 meters above the ground.

    Are there some who have any suggestions for changes?

    In clip 3 it is intentionally I roll in the roll axis :)

    Autotune 75%
    Pan 114 / Roll 113 / Tilt 128 Stiffness
    Pan 4 / Roll 1 / Tilt 1 Filter
    Pan 58 / Roll 27 / Tilt 33 Hold strenght
    Jolt Rejection 0
    Gyro Filter 5
    Output (Master) Filter 2
    Handheld mode
    Heading Assist OFF

    password: test





     
    #17 Stefan Helborg, Mar 21, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  18. James Davis

    James Davis New Member

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    Turn tilt and roll hold down to around 10-15.

    Pan hold down to 30-35

    Then go back and try to push your stiffness settings a lot higher manually using the filters to overcome oscillation as and when it comes in.
    Those seem like very low stiffness numbers to me.
     
  19. Stefan Helborg

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  20. Ben Platts

    Ben Platts Active Member

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    After about 6 days testing over the last two weeks and trying to get things working I haven't really got anywhere at all. All my results are pretty poor. Im either missing something massive or it seems like I have a faulty unit. That would also be strange as the unit has already been back to Freefly for a wiring fault so they would've checked it then for further faults I'd assume. I've been flying with an Alexa mini and a 35mm Sigma EF lens and a paralinx tomahawk link for the tests. See attached photos. Please see the video for 10 of todays 13 tests with all the details of each setting listed on each clip, its 3:30 if you want to watch it all! Compass heading assist was on throughout apart from on the one clip where its states its off. Gyro filter is on 5 and Master output filter is on 1 throughout. Everything is perfectly balanced. I have mounted the Paralinx on the front bars in order to fix the Pro's natural unbalance on the pan axis. I took this off for 2 of the flights to check this wasn't making things bad. No change. It is being flown on the Alta 8. I fly the same Alta with my M15 and get perfect results up to 100mm lenses. I've also flown the Pro under the Matrice 600 and got the same results. As you can see I can't get my stiffness settings much about 130 on the Pan until it starts oscillating but when I drop it lower to lose the oscillations it looks loose and bumpy. So I really don't know where I can go with it now. I've tried higher and lower hold strengths, Filter settings, auto tuning suspended and whilst in flight, manual tuning. Nothing seems to make it at all better and I will keep using my M15 until I have some sort of solution for the Pro. Im contacting Freefly support to take up the issue with them as I've been trying to get the unit to work for 2 and a half months without any joy. Any suggestions for anything left that I can try would be welcome! I've been problem solving gimbal issue for 5 years since the days of the Cinestar gimbal but this has got me totally stumped.

    Password: test

    <iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/209967496" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>
    <p><a href="">Movi Pro tests</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/flyingcameracompany">Flying Camera Company Ltd</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>
     

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