A7s - M10 - Alta wobble

Discussion in 'ALTA' started by JASPER GLAVANICS, Dec 3, 2015.

  1. JASPER GLAVANICS

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    Hey all,

    So thought id start another thread seeing if anyone is flying an A7s with M10 or a similar setup? I have mounted the Shogun to a carbon platform that sits in the front of the top movi between the two legs. I have done auto tuning at 50% and tried tweaking the gains from there, but don't seem to get much further than auto tune gains.
    Once in the air, the footage is pretty shaky.. besides a couple of spots where there is no wind, close to the ground and I'm moving slowly. Once at an altitude and doing any sort of forward, reverse etc movement, there is wobble and shake in the footage. I tried running the green dampners initially and then the black ones, however the black seem to be worse. Movi weight with everything is about 5.5kgs.

    Any suggestions on this peeps?? As ive seen other footage of similar setups and its smooth as silk :)
     
  2. Rolf Ableiter

    Rolf Ableiter Active Member

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    first it could be possible, that the A7s is to lightweight for the MoVI.
    The next thing is the shogun recorder wich is big and flat. This could be the problem because of the downwash of the props.
    if you mounted it flat (with the screen facing to the top), than this is your problem...
    i hope that someone will bring a small 4k recorder without monitor to the market... a tiny thing like the atomos ninja star but with 4k recording...
     
    Cui jian-qiu likes this.
  3. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Suspend the alta on a a couple chairs and have the M10 hanging from the Alta's vibration system like it would naturally in air. I would then monitor your vibrations through the MOVI app and see what's happening. What I normally do is suspend the ALTA and Movi like I describe, and then do an auto tune at 70% making sure the radio is setup to air mode (switch position farthest from the operator) I then write down all the stiffness settings it gives. I then increase each motors stiffness till they start vibrating and then back off approx 18 from that point. That gets me to where I need to be.

    What lens are you using? A bigger zoom lens can also affect the amount of shake you will see. Make sure that you setup a tuning profile for each lens you use if you use different ones.
     
  4. Tim Sessler

    Tim Sessler Active Member

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    What are your gains?

    I'd mount the Shogun behind the A7s - I've done it before (using a small Redrock cheese plate) and it worked fine.
    I've also flown the A7s ii without external recorder on the M15 and it looked great as well: https://www.instagram.com/p/9lnXUOBXnL/

    Maybe also send along a photo of how your shogun mounted. If you only have the A7s on the MoVI without cage you will have to add some weights and use wedges to get the gains higher. The A7s straight on the M10 is probably not gonna get you great results.

    Hope this is helpful
     
  5. JASPER GLAVANICS

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  6. JASPER GLAVANICS

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    just typed a whole reply and its disappeared since uploading the photo which also uploads rotated... ????
    Anyway, will try the suspending machine thing to get gains higher. See photo of where shogun is attached with a Kopterworx mounting plate. Also enough weight cos have Atomos power bank on A7s and CP.2 35mm.
    I think M10 just doesnt go well in the air. Prob gonna transfer everything to my M15, just wanted to have both systems functional, but wasting too much time on the M10.
     
  7. JASPER GLAVANICS

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  8. Tim Sessler

    Tim Sessler Active Member

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    The M10 works just as well as the M15 (if not even better) in the air. If you're well balanced and have your gains up to 70/70/200 you should get decent results. Also the way the transmitter is mounted to the rear landing gear leg will cause some problems. I'd velcro (with some heavy duty velcro or Scotch Fastner) it to the main MoVI control box (the ones with the 3 LEDs on it).
     
  9. JASPER GLAVANICS

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    not sure i agree with you tim saying that the M10 is just as good as the M15, but hope ur right. My M10 is balanced as well as it can be, and have tried mounting the transmitter on the movi control box, but theres isnt enough room (starts hitting the landing gear). I can slide the pan knuckle forward, but that would mess with the balance...
    I did try and get the gains up to 200, but the pan starts to vibrate like crazy all the way through to the Alta... M15, I can bump these gains up high no problem.
     
  10. Tim Sessler

    Tim Sessler Active Member

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    You need to use a longer CF tube to get the rear landing gear further out.

    Are you using a wedge or something to get the A7s really tight on the MoVI? As you dont have a cage on there you will need that to get the gains up - without your results won't look good.
     
  11. JASPER GLAVANICS

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    You're right on both accounts Tim, I definitely need to extend the rear tube as I have done with M15 and also probably go ahead and purchase the cage for M10.. As I have neither on M10 at the moment. So when wedging, does one just jam something underneath, between the camera and the gimbal bottom mount?
     
  12. Tim Sessler

    Tim Sessler Active Member

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    Exactly. A piece of plastic or CF that fits in there. I had an extension for an old Zacuto EVF that fit perfectly. Some gaff tape around it will get it even tighter. Definitely make sure its something solid - e.g. if its too thin and you add a bunch of gaff tape, it will most likely not be stiff enough and wont give the result that you're looking for. Good luck ;)
     
  13. JASPER GLAVANICS

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    cool. will get to it and update the thread once tested. Also are you using the green dampners or the black ones for a 5 - 5.5kg payload?
     
  14. Tim Sessler

    Tim Sessler Active Member

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    I am using the teal ones for everything - from A7s to heavy RED Dragon.
     
  15. JASPER GLAVANICS

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    Ok.
    I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out how to wedge something underneath the camera and gimbal cross bar .. Have attached a photo of underneath. Suggestions?
     
  16. JASPER GLAVANICS

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  17. Cam Batten

    Cam Batten Member

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    Hey Tim,

    I've been trying to make this combo work nicely and not that happy with results. Can you post a pic of your a7s II setup with wedges and gains?

    Cheers
     
  18. Tim Sessler

    Tim Sessler Active Member

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    Jasper - you're right its not gonna work like that. You will need a cheese plate that the camera is mounted to - it will give you a larger surface area that will extend under the MoVI rods. I am using one of those: http://store.redrockmicro.com/Catalog/mountinggear/microSupport-cheeseplate.html

    Cam - I had a IR A7s setup while I was shooting NOSTALGIA with the pre production ALTA on the M10 - but I unfortunately dont have any photos.
    On the M15 or my M10 with the cage I am not using a wedge: https://www.instagram.com/p/9hQUCIhXnz/
     
  19. JASPER GLAVANICS

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    not sure how the cheeseplate would mount in relation to the camera and movi though ...

    Also just doing auto tune now, does one do this with feet on the ground or suspended between chairs?
     
  20. JASPER GLAVANICS

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