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A revolution or fake news? iPhone 11 pro and mobile film making

Discussion in 'Movi Technical' started by Rick Bronks, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. Stephen Hart

    Stephen Hart Active Member

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    Most of the photography I do with my iPhone is stills when I don't have my Lumix FZ2500 (the camera you have...). So framing closer in without compromising quality is handy, for example for flower photos or people. It's also handy for what you might call utility photos, taking notes by way of photography.
    As to faces, back in the day, I had a Nikkormat with a Nikon 105 mm "portrait" lens, which was wonderful for people pictures, avoiding both the big-nose and in-your-face problems. I think the 52 mm on an iPhone would have a similar advantage compared to the 26mm, giving a more pleasing portrait image, and not invading the subject's personal space. (Though nowadays, in the selfie era, maybe most people see big-nose and in-your-face as features, not bugs.)
    Handheld video with the tele lens would be much harder, of course. Even so it could be useful in pulling 8MP frames from the 4K video.
    I haven't used the tele lens with the Movi. Freefly's videos mention that it would likely be problematic.

    In any case, for the moment, I'm using the iPhone Upgrade Program, so the 11 pro is essentially a straight upgrade from what I'm used to (Xs), and even a few dollars a month less expensive.
     
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  2. Rick Bronks

    Rick Bronks Active Member

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    I'm wondering what it would be like to put a wide angle say from Moment or Sandmark onto the extreme wide angle of the new iPhones.
    I noticed the new moment cases only have lens fittings for 2 of the 11 Pro's cameras. I am assuming the ultra wide on the phone can't cope with an external lens (vignetting or whatever would happen)

    Interesting though.
     
  3. Rorick Edge

    Rorick Edge Active Member

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    Just uploaded, Marques Brownlee’s review of the iPhone 11 Pro. Takeaways: The battery claim is legit. “Still the best video of any smartphone”.



    Also just uploaded, Jonathan Morrison’s review of the Pro Max. Morrison is much more detailed than Brownlee on the cameras. Takeaways: The battery claim is legit. “The video stabilisation is mind-blowing”.

     
    #43 Rorick Edge, Sep 19, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  4. Kevin P Riley

    Kevin P Riley Active Member

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    Ok, I got the 11 pro about an hour ago. I’m still loading programs, so no video, but properly balancing the phone in the Movi....the arm and the motor take up a quarter of the frame. Once the program loads And I can pair the Movi to the new phone...I may see what kind of weight is needed to balance it.
    I’m probably headed to the osmo mobile 3.
     
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  5. Kevin P Riley

    Kevin P Riley Active Member

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    I did a very quick video with the stock photo app. This is balanced with no counterweight.

     
    #45 Kevin P Riley, Sep 20, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
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  6. Rorick Edge

    Rorick Edge Active Member

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    I’m surprised and very disappointed that Freefly isn’t communicating with its users about this. That video makes it clear that they’ve known this would happen ever since they learned about the 13mm lens, presumably at the latest when the MCR was used to make a video for the September 10 launch event. It’s now 10 days post-launch, and silence from Freefly.
     
    #46 Rorick Edge, Sep 20, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  7. Kevin P Riley

    Kevin P Riley Active Member

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    It would be nice if they had addressed it, but there is nothing they could have done about it. Can’t imagine they have time with all the time they are spending supporting the cinema robot’s software.
     
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  8. Rorick Edge

    Rorick Edge Active Member

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    They could and should have told users that there is a problem with the new iPhones, and preferably what, if anything, they plan to do about it. On September 11, I started a thread here asking Freefly directly about this issue. Not a single response from the company. In the last ten days, there have been two other threads that raise this. Also no response from Freefly. These have been the top three threads ever since the launch. It’s not like nobody at Freefly noticed them.

    This is not how you treat customers, at least not ones you want to keep. At least be proactive and straight. Hiding isn’t a good look, and doesn’t engender confidence or loyalty.
     
    #48 Rorick Edge, Sep 20, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  9. Rorick Edge

    Rorick Edge Active Member

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    As far as I can figure out, Freefly’s choice now is to either redesign or abandon the Movi. They can try to include in the package a counterweight that addresses the 13mm problem, but I have trouble seeing this as a serious strategy. I think that purchasers of the iPhone 11 phones will just look for alternatives. Maybe DJI’s Osmo Mobile 3 is it.

    In the absence of an immediate redesign, I’m skeptical that Apple or vendors like B&H will even continue to sell the product. Where’s the market, except buyers of older Apple phones, and how likely is it that a buyer of an older phone will pay $300 for a gimbal that he knows won’t fully work with standard-size versions of the current phone?

    If there are answers to these questions, Freefly should have provided them to its users on September 10. Ten days later, despite users asking specifically for clarity on this situation, nothing.
     
    #49 Rorick Edge, Sep 20, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  10. John Chu

    John Chu Active Member

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  11. Rorick Edge

    Rorick Edge Active Member

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    John, the MCR was used in the Apple launch video, and on September 11 a Freefly employee answered a question about it, related to this issue, from a participant in this forum. Indeed from Rick Bronks, who started this thread. Go back to page 1 :)

    Ignoring that, Freefly has obviously known about this problem since at least September 10. It’s not like they need a physical phone to figure out the impact on the MCR of a 13mm lens in that position on the phone. Give their engineers and designers credit for basic knowledge about their own product.

    Freefly should have addressed this with its users without them raising it. As for Freefly not knowing that the issue has been raised here in what are the top three threads in the last ten days? Want to buy a bridge, cheap?

    But let’s hope you’re right and that Freefly, until today, was completely asleep at the switch (except for the employee who answered Rick Bronks’s question) and had no idea whatsoever that the entire MCR product line is under threat and that its customers might want to know what the plan is. When do they tell us that they know there’s a problem? Not a solution, just that they know that there’s a problem that affects their users. Tomorrow? Sunday? Monday? Next month?

    I’ll tell you what I think. I think that it’s obvious that they knew about this on September 10, and almost certainly before then, and that they’ve spent the last ten days ignoring the people who purchased their product and have been supporting them. In my case, I’ve considered purchasing other Freefly products, but right now I have serious reservations about buying anything from this company. I’m not surprised that other forum participants are talking about jumping to DJI. Paying a large premium for an American product doesn’t make a lot of sense when customers are treated like they don’t exist.
     
    #51 Rorick Edge, Sep 20, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
  12. Marc Smith

    Marc Smith New Member

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    Do you think this will work with the counterweight? If so, what’s the big deal?
     
  13. Rorick Edge

    Rorick Edge Active Member

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    It’s a big deal if you are buying an iPhone 11 or iPhone 11 Pro and, as a current MCR owner, are told that your MCR won’t work anymore unless you pay another $60 for counterweights, or as a buyer looking for a first time gimbal are told that the MCR won’t work at all unless you use counterweights, which are a nuisance and bring the cost to $360.

    A person in the latter group might be forgiven for asking why someone would design a gimbal for the iPhone that doesn’t work with the standard-size phone without a $60 add-on, and whether there is an alternative, cheaper product that was designed with the iPhone 11 in mind and isn’t a nuisance to set up. Like maybe the DJI Osmo Mobile 3, that a number of current MCR owners are talking about bolting to.

    At the moment, it’s hard to understand why anybody who is purchasing any of the iPhone 11 phones would buy an MCR. Indeed, it’s hard to understand why major retailers like Apple and B&H would continue selling it.
     
    #53 Rorick Edge, Sep 20, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  14. John Chu

    John Chu Active Member

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    When high quality add-on lenses were first introduced a few years ago for the iPhone (such as the Moondog Labs Anamorphic)–Mobile phone stabilizers manufacturers didn't have a factory solution immediately. Users were fashioning their own counterweight solutions.

    While not ideal and pricey, I'm satisfied Freefly has a solution with their counterweights for the Movi and add-on lenses.

    Since the new iPhone 11 only needs to be slid over to the left, I can imagine only needing a weighted iPhone "case" with a Jay Leno chin offsetting the need to have the phone that far over to support the superwide. Or maybe a very small purpose built counterweight that screws into the 2 holes.

    I chose the Movi because of the form factor and the fact they were the first which ushered in all the competitors from China following Freefly's lead. Look how game changing it has been.

    I can't imagine when designing the MCR they would think phone manufacturers would put in such a wide lens internally. Let's be patient and see what solutions are possible.
     
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  15. Marc Smith

    Marc Smith New Member

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    I get it, it’s a pain for the counterweight weight, bet let’s be honest, it’s not really that bad. I’ve used a few other gimbals fieyutech and gopro and movi is leaps and bounds better. Yes I know it’s a different set up but same idea. I’ll continue to stick with freefly.
     
  16. Stephen Hart

    Stephen Hart Active Member

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    "your MCR won’t work anymore"

    My Movi works just as it did Thursday with my iPhone Xs. Just use the wide lens instead of the ultra wide on the 11 pro, for the moment at least.

    It seems to me that a solution for using the ultra wide will be simpler than using the very heavy and protruding Moment lenses.

    I posted a couple of tests here:

    https://forum.freeflysystems.com/in...e-the-mcr-the-new-iphone-11.13280/#post-88995
     
    #56 Stephen Hart, Sep 21, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
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  17. Rorick Edge

    Rorick Edge Active Member

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    YouTuber iPhonedo has some good camera tests from 07:00 to 15:00:

     
    #57 Rorick Edge, Sep 21, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  18. Kevin P Riley

    Kevin P Riley Active Member

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    Here is a picture of the phone in the Movi, with counter weight, scooted out to where the motor does not show in the video at 13mm. It needs the large weights to balance. Personally I am uncomfortable using it that way. Seems like I will have to devise some sort of leash to insure if it falls out, it doesn’t hit the ground.

    I will be buying an osmo mobile 3. I will see if freefly addresses this and see how I like the osmo. I may sell the Movi or I may keep it for when I don’t have to shoot ultra wide.i really do like this piece of hardware.

    fwiw, the ultra wide lens on the iPhone is not that great. I have a case coming from moment so I may also be back to using the moment wide lens.
     

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  19. Stephen Hart

    Stephen Hart Active Member

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    "fwiw, the ultra wide lens on the iPhone is not that great. I have a case coming from moment so I may also be back to using the moment wide lens."

    What did you find "not that great" about it?
     
  20. Rorick Edge

    Rorick Edge Active Member

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    As I understand it, you have an 11 Pro. The 11 Pro Max can use the whole of the cradle, and indeed can extend beyond the cradle’s right edge by two or three millimeters, because the phone is 14mm (0.55”) longer. See my post #18 here: https://forum.freeflysystems.com/in...e-the-mcr-the-new-iphone-11.13280/#post-89010
     

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