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BMCC 4K + M5 + wifi monitoring

Discussion in 'MōVI M5' started by paulo gambale, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. paulo gambale

    paulo gambale New Member

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    Hi. I'm ordering the M5 with the spektrum. I intend to use it with BMCC 4K and GH4.
    What I need to understand is how I could monitor to a second monitor, actually what would be the cheapest way to send my BMCC signal to a second operator /monitor.
    A friend of mine told me I'd need at least a paralinx arrow transmiter (which costs around U$300,00) and I could use any other cheap receiver.
    I already have some HDMI monitors already (Marshall VLCD5, lilliput 7").
    Don't intend to pull focus right now, just start using the movii with a second operator for the gymbal movements.
    Teradeck and paralinx kits are way to expensive right now.
    another problem is how to output from BMCC, which has a SDI output.
    I'm sure you guys have some tips regarding to those solutions.
    Hope to hear from you soon.
    Best,
    paulo
     
  2. Ryan McMaster

    Ryan McMaster Active Member

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    I would highly recommend getting an M10 if you plan on using the BM4k. The M5 is very limited in lens selection that works properly, I have found the 40 and 24 pancake to be the best on the M5, other then that you run into some big front weight issues. Also you will need to remove the cage to get a SDI and power in. There are people who have done it with the cage on but it does not work well and causes balance issues. If you have ANY intention of flying the M10 will also be a much better choice for the BM4k.

    You will also need a SDI based downlink, I use a bolt pro and bolt 2000, reason being is if you convert the signal to an AV signal it looks terrible and can not be used for reference. I have used the SDI to AV converters and even to a high end monitor the picture is terrible and will look blocky.

    The BM4k is a GREAT camera, but it will cost you a boat load to get a wireless video signal out of it. I have not put mine on a movi in a while either due to its limited light gathering capabilities now that I have a few A7s's.

    I was able to counter the weight with the Teradek bolt, but it was still difficult to balance.

    10-22 ef-s, custom back plate for downlink, 4" rods and inverted operation are about the only way this camera will work on the M5 properly. Done a ton of testing and various configs, also note that this camera will max out the motors more often then not which could lead to a much shorter M5 life.
    IMG_20140709_202416[1].jpg
     
  3. paulo gambale

    paulo gambale New Member

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    Ryan, thank you for answering.
    Well, actually I don't intend to fly it. This is my first step into that 'movement' world...
    I run a production house in Brasil which makes mainly 'countryside' documentaries, interviews...always small crew, travelling, camera car, etc
    My choice for the M5, of course, is because of it's price and size. (we're not into those big production TV ads, studios...)
    Besides Canon DSLRs and panasonic GH4, I got the BMCC 4K and love it, nice flatten images.
    After seeing the BMCC on a M5 at the NAB I started thinking of it.
    I know it's limited on lenses and ergonomics, but if it works with some, I could manage it, at least having this option is good.
    I'm sure M10 would be a killer one, but it costs double and right now I have around 5k to spend on it.
    Can't even spend that much on paralinx neither teradek bolt at this moment.
    I'm sure after a while I'll start getting all those acessories, but just needed help to make it work 'out of the box' when I get it here next week.
    All tips and suggestions are welcome as I'm new to it at all.

    Regarding to monitoring, Can I get the paralinx transmitter at first, and use any other receiver just for image reference for the second operator?
    And what are people using for powering acessories? I mean, the BMCC, monitor, etc? I've got that switronix 14.8 77Wh V mount battery for my BMCC 4k. is that usable for camera and other stuff? what else I should order?
    Regards!
    paulo.
     
  4. Matija Petrovic

    Matija Petrovic New Member

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    Hello Paulo, have You try BMCC 4K maybe with canon 16-35mm or with rokinon 35mm, that's two lenses I will use with BMCC and with movi m5 so I'm interested is that option works, thanks
     
  5. Ryan McMaster

    Ryan McMaster Active Member

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    Paulo,

    I understand, but take it from someone who had one of the first 4k's and M5's that it wont work the way you want unless you are willing to spend the money and keep a limited lens selection. Keep that 4k on a tripod and do the run and gun on the M5 with your GH4, your back and your Movi will thank you. I had to get a M10 to make the BM4k an option for serious work, the M5 just limits the camera too much and my clients don't want limits.

    Video link wise there are no good work around unless you want a picture that has zero reference value. If I get some time today I will post what an AV signal looks like on my smallHD AC7 vs the un-converted signal from the Bolt. The best solution I have found is a SDI based monitor and SDI straight out of the 4k cabled. With the GH4 AV (SD) conversion from HDMI will still retain a good picture and give you what you need, in addition to the MUCH better light gathering properties of the GH4 that are more conductive to Movi operation.

    4k on the job with all the rigging.This was a job were we could light the subjects and needed to do dolly shots but did not have the space to bring in a dolly. Bolt on teh back, 10-22 ef-s. This setup keeps the COG well centered but requires a custom plate to mount the bolt to act as a counter weight.
    IMG_20140805_103412[1].jpg


    Matija

    I have tried the 16-35 and the Rokinon 35, Canon 35 and other 35's. You are going to run into serious balance issues with all of them and put a ton of stress on the motors. The long mount flange on the BM4k results in the Cevnter of gravity on the camera being in weird places with any lens that has a heavy large front element (like all the ones you listed). You are best off with the Canon 10-22 EF-S, Canon 40mm and 24mm pancake and the Canon 24 IS f/2.8 or getting a Movi M10. Non-withstanding the lenses you listed are GREAT on a tripod and I shoot most of my stock footage on the Rokinon.
     
  6. Matija Petrovic

    Matija Petrovic New Member

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    Thanks Ryan, but most of the time I will use Canon 5D mk3 with 16-35mm but sometimes I need to use BMCC with that 16-35mm lens, I don't have money to buy m10 and I see many people use that camera and that lens with movi m5
     
  7. Ryan McMaster

    Ryan McMaster Active Member

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    the 16-35 is great on a DSLR because the mount flange and the COG on the camera is very centered, but like I said the long flange on the BM4k results in some balance issues and will stress the motors out, resulting in a shorter life on your tilt motor.
     
  8. Tim Joy

    Tim Joy Active Member

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    I second the opinion that the M10 is a better choice. I gave up trying to balance the 4K on the M5.
    I use the Blackmagic SDI to analog converter to get the downlink signal to a regular 5.8ghz transmitter. No it's not a great reference signal but with the right monitor it looks fine for framing without having to spend a lot. I did take the circuit board out of the case and de-solder all the unneeded connectors, taking 80% of the weight off it.
     
  9. Ryan McMaster

    Ryan McMaster Active Member

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    Tim,

    I did the same thing for a while, but with the need for live broadcast capabilities (on a XA 25) the SDI links just made sense.


    And I misspoke, it is not the motor that will burn up it is the IMU and the controller for the tilt motor that will burn up.
     
  10. paulo gambale

    paulo gambale New Member

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    Ryan, thank you! I got it all!
    As I already ordered the M5, I'll live with that for a while. Still have the 'great' option of using the GH4, and maybe, a future BM pocket 4K (who knows...!?!). cams are getting smaller...
    Even knowing that, I still have the option of using the BMCC 4K with lots of limits,
    I'm sure most of the time clients I work will need just a good FULLHD footage, which I could extract from a 6D, mark iii, etc...

    With almost 5k, I'm getting the M5, spektrum controller, paralinx arrow transmitter and will try to use my monitors (marshall and liliput, which I'm using with a phanton 2). Receiver I'll try some other.
    There is also a Crossbow HD-SDI to HDMI which seems to work in case I want to convert the BM SDI to HDMI, am I right?
    As time passes, I'm sure I'll try to improve it. A good focus system, better monitors, batteries, etc...
    I'll let you know what happens!
    thks again.
    I appreciate the picts. it's good to get that visual and figure it out. it seems like a lego!
     
  11. Derek Cooper

    Derek Cooper Active Member

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    Been flying with the GH4 on the Movi M5 under a Cinestar X8 and am finding the GH4 a bit problematic - tend to shoot at sunrise and sunset, and the contrast between sky and ground is forcing us to keep the sky from clipping, which pushes the shadows down into the bottom quarter of the sensor's range, which really limits us in post. It's proving to be a problem.

    Thinking of the BMPCC 4K, but agree it's likely too much for the M5. Will use the Paralinx Arrow-X to transmit HD video. Currently have the Arrow but it's range is far too limiting for copter work. Paralinx has agreed to "upgrade," my Arrow to Arrow-X on a trade-in basis. Nice.
     
  12. Ryan McMaster

    Ryan McMaster Active Member

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    A7s if you want the widest dynamic range. Tested the 4k and a7s for that exact situation and the a7s wins hands down. Polarizing filter and a 3 stop ND go a long way too. I shoot 90% of my work on the A7s and M5 now (Dragon retired, BM4k just when clients want 4k till I can find a light weight recorder). Another good lightweight option is the BM pocket since you have MFT glass.
     
  13. Derek Cooper

    Derek Cooper Active Member

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    I have the BM pocket, but really adoring the 4K options. Lots of cropping / zooming in post.

    Sony eh...?
     
  14. Ryan McMaster

    Ryan McMaster Active Member

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    A7s sees about 15 stops in Slog 2 (Looks a bit more like 16 if you set the profile up and desat/lower contrast) and I have matched it to Dragon, BM4k, BMCC footage no problem. The 4k is nice, but if you want to get any real use out of it you will need a M10. I have a 10-22, 10-18 (I forgot to mention this awesome lens), 40 pancake and 24 pancake and those are the only lenses that do not put a TON of undue stress on the M5.
     

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